Show Summary: "Vaccines are meant to stimulate your immune system."
The pandemic has been testing the mental, physical and emotional well-being of people worldwide since it started. Many felt the fear of losing their lives or their loved ones because of how dangerous it has become. Wearing masks, face shields, and social distancing are now the new norm. Restrictions are everywhere to prevent the virus from spreading and taking the lives of many. The decrease in economic growth has been felt, especially in third-world countries.
But the question is, until when do we suffer from this? Now that vaccines are developed, many believe and hope that the pandemic is soon coming to an end. However, it sparks multiple reactions and emotions from different people. Some are afraid to get it, while others can't wait to be vaccinated.
"Is it safe for all ages?"
"Will it prevent the transmission?"
"If taken, does it mean your 100 percent protected from the virus?"
In this episode, Dr. Bradley Campbell of Integrated Holistic Healthcare in Wilmette, IL, and author of "Do I Have Adrenal Fatigue" book, shares his experiences with vaccines since he was a child up to the present. As a kid, he and his sister were doing a regular vaccine schedule, but they had different reactions to it, which made him more curious about its risks and benefits. However, many people in the natural community are skeptical about it, so find out what he has to say about the effects of vaccines.
Who is Dr. Bradley Campbell?
Dr. Bradley 2:15
How long does the vaccine is supposed to last?
Dr. Bradley 3:23
His history with vaccinations
Dr. Bradley 7:39
The effects of the pandemic
Dr. Bradley 38:36
This is the Gutsy Health Podcast with Juanique and Tristin Roney.
Hey, guys, welcome back to the Gutsy Health Podcast, we have Gina Worful with us. She's my co-host. Welcome, Gina.
Hey, everybody. Hello. And we also have Dr. Bradley Campbell. Welcome, Dr. Bradley Campbell.
Thanks for having me on.
Absolutely. You guys, we have a really special episode today, and it's probably going to be one that's going to turn heads a little bit because we're talking about the covid vaccine. But before we go into this topic, I kind of want to tell everyone the story of how I came across Dr. Bradley Campbell. I had a follower on Instagram, actually tag me and him in a post talking about wholefood vitamin C, and rarely do I come across any wellness practitioners, doctors, dietitians talk about like rarely do they talk about wholefood vitamin C and the difference between wholefood and vitamin C and ascorbic acid. Ascorbic acid is not wholefood vitamin C. So when I saw there was a doctor out there talking about wholefood vitamin C, I was shocked. I was actually completely shocked because people think I'm a whack for preaching about wholefood vitamin C and the P factor K factor J factor. Right? Like people like, no, that's..
Right. Right and I'm like, no, I promise you like ascorbic acid is processed. So came across your Instagram account, Dr. Campbell, and you are very pro good information. You do a lot of research. You're really intelligent. And I was watching a video where you were talking about how the mRNA vaccine isn't what everyone is saying it is. And I was watching it and I loved how you explained it. And I immediately messaged you and I said, I need you on the podcast because you're very intelligent and this is a topic that we need to unpack. So thank you, Dr. Campbell, for coming on here. Can you tell listeners who you are, how you got here, what kind of doctor you are, all of your freaking degrees? You are really, really brilliant. Tell us who you are.
Yes, I'm Bradely Campbell. I grew up in the suburbs of Chicago, North Side, and I went how long to tell my story. But basically I went to chiropractic and naturopathic school and got finished with my chiropractic degree and got that from The National University of Health Sciences in Lombard, Illinois. And while I was there, I just like dived into everything I could possibly do and was doing degrees at night and on the weekends and was basically also working on what they call diplomats in nutrition, neurology, homoeopathy, applied kinesiology and internal medicine. And then at the end, when I got to my internship and the classes eased up, I also got into acupuncture school and did that for four years and just finished that recently.
And yeah, I just dove headfirst into natural health and just like love the profession, love the career. I love the philosophy of, like, how to be healthy naturally and honestly I was a musician.
I was a saxophonist in college.
And I got to conduct an orchestra and I thought that's what I wanted to do. And I just had this meeting with like 12 doctors and they were all medical doctors and most of them were surgeons and they just were kind of pessimistic about the profession, like a lot more like when I wish I could have been a nurse or a nurse practitioner or like a dietician or something else because their family lives were not the best. And they were sort of like, well, my wife raise my kids and I'm like, well, my dad did as a dentist and I didn't want to go down the workaholic route.
And my chiropractor as a kid saved my life many times. And I had a couple injuries in college, too, where I had carpal tunnel surgery and went to my car and he fix it in like five minutes. OK, maybe I can help more people getting into natural health to how my chiropractor did saving my life. And I just really loved the profession. Everyone I talked to has a really balanced life in the chiropractic field.
I have fallen in love with chiropractic and naturopathic and oriental Chinese medicine, just all of the stuff about it, even though I was super skeptical going in because I shadowed some chiropractors that within an hour with people and some that would spend two minutes.
You know, and I didn't want to be just like the rock'em crack'em see as many people as possible in an hour. But those chiropractors would get amazing results. People would walk in with a walker cane. They'd walk out five minutes later feeling fine, which was amazing. But I just wanted to have more patient interaction. I was super into research and read about every book I could on junk science and placebo stuff like snake oil science when I got into school because I was like, what is this herbal stuff? What is the wholefood vitamin C? What is a synthetic vitamin C? Is they real? What's the psychological? What's scientific? And there is a lack of research on food, but I think it's starting to come into its own and standard process. And Magufuli and all these other brands are starting to do a lot of this research finally, with major in universities, which is great. But long story short, I just did a lot of natural health degrees. So I have feel like I have a unique perspective on sort of like the alternative eastern holistic side of the medical spectrum, but my family and a lot of my training was also very Western science evidence based. The school I went to is the most evidence-based chiropractic naturopathic school in the US. So I also have a love for Western medicine, a love for hospitals and all those kind of fields as well. So they bridge the gap for a lot of people who aren't sure where they want to end up.
Yes, and I love that you have that balance and we kind of need both worlds. I mean, if it weren't for Western medicine, Tristin, my husband would be dead, you know? And so I'm so grateful for the doctors and the surgeons that have kept him alive. But then we've needed Eastern to get quality and quantity as well. Right. And so I really love that you have that balance and you respect both worlds. And really, when you utilize data and research and critical thinking, you can come to really great conclusions, but that takes time. And what I witnessed from you, Dr. Campbell, is that you take time to research and you dig into the weeds and the nitty gritty and come to your conclusions that you're sharing with people. So will you share with listeners your story around vaccines? Because your family has a little bit of a history with vaccinations. And I just want to let's preface this is not going to be an anti-vaccine post. I do want to put that out there. If many of you who have been listening to this podcast were all about sharing information as unbiased as possible. And so there's no agenda here. We're just going to share what we know and let you guys come to your conclusions. So please, please keep listening. Don't think that we're going to bash vaccines. We're going to bash this and we're going to bash that. We're going to really try and have this conversation as levelheaded as possible. So, Dr. Campbell, tell us a little bit about your history with vaccines?
This what we do Juanique. When we brought in the juicy stuff on the sugar debate, it's not necessarily bash evil sugar.
It's just looking at the evidence of both sides to it. That's such a hot topic.
I think it's such a complex subject and you can't make a tweet about something that's so complex as health. You know, it's such a nuanced debate, which is why you need long-form podcasts like this to discuss it and why I post a five or twenty minute videos, because you can't make a tweet or a little poster, a little short video about it.
No you can't. So go ahead and tell us about your history with vaccinations.
Yeah. So my family has some genetic traits which can make us a little more susceptible to issues with detoxification, allergies and autoimmunity and genes that relate to like celiac and lactose and other things like that. And I do it long, like I do like a 40 to 60 page genetic profiling on certain patients. So I've run that on myself and it gives you more data. You never really need to know more than twenty three other things. But essentially we have some genetic factors we know about. So my mom's a nurse and we were all doing the normal vaccine schedule as kids. And I had some minor allergies that started possibly like minor and a plastic type reaction, whereas my sister had more severe seizures, absent seizures and almost like pseudo qiangba syndrome type. It didn't last forever, but her seizures were, to whatever degree, maybe impacted by vaccines.
But that's the big thing. We can ever really true cause or correlation with any of this stuff,because a lot of the vaccines in children are given at a time when there is the typical neurologic regression at certain age and a lot of the vaccine schedule is set up to be given at those times of military regression. So we weren't sure if my sister was regressing just normally when she kind of came back online again a couple weeks later, which is what happens in most children. They have periods of like fits of rage or like, why is my child at this age now acting like a year younger? That's part of a normal process of the trimming of your brain development. So we weren't really sure, but we all seem to have some negative reactions. And now kind of like with the flu, my mom and my sister both are very negatively react to most vaccines of flu things now. And my mom has struggled with chronic autoimmune and fibromyalgia and Lyme and all kinds of these chronic health issues, a myriad of things that now she's basically recovered from or moved into remission, which is great.
But those issues do put our family or her at a little bit at a higher risk factor for some of the adverse reactions, whether it be short term or long term. So I kind of was in the space of like fairly pro-vaccine I would say, like I was probably one of the most pro-vaccine people in the natural medical school, because a lot of the natural community is more skeptical than most. And I had an experience where I got a puppy as well in chiropractic and naturopathic school. And he two days after I got him, I took him to the vet. They gave him his like try vaccine is first round and he had a horrible reaction. He's an Irish setter, and he developed a condition called HOD hypertrophic osteo-dystrophy, just astros' bones. So basically his bones were self-destructive, which happens on very rare incidents like less than one percent of Weimaraners and Irish setters and Great Danes will have this reaction. And sometimes like him, it's extreme and it's like, oh, great, I'm just like natural health doctor and my dog's having a vaccine reaction, like just what I would expect. And so the vets actually wanted to put my dog down.
Oh, my God.
It was probably like some of the hardest two, three days of my life. I was just crying. He couldn't stand up and thank God we actually found a veterinary professor in Colorado that figured out if you just give a really high dose steroids for like a day or two, it just shuts down the autoimmune response and the dog's fine.
So we did that and he was literally finding like an hour or two. So it was another example of like Western medicine, maybe causing some problems, but also saving the day.
Yeah, that's amazing.
I think is really interesting that is your story and your experience. I am curious if you are kind of aligned with the philosophy, because I've talked with a few like holistic practitioners or functional medicine doctors of their view. And what do you do with children and vaccinations and that debate and it seemed like the recommendations that they were seeming to give was, number one, do gene testing, and then, number two, maybe give some glutathione and try your best to support detoxification at that time. Is that kind of how you feel about, you know, when deciding to vaccinate children in general or where is your stance there?
Yeah, I really don't ever make the choice for people. I let them make their own decision and really try to give a true informed consent, which is I call Bran B.RA.N benefits, risks, alternatives and nothing like what happens if you do nothing and some people come in very opinionated as patients and they're not getting any vaccines. Other people are getting all the vaccines no matter what I tell them or educate them or resources or books or anything like they're not going to really sway their mind. But I do try to dictate and then change the music. I try to meet them where they're at and then help them just grow a little bit more in awareness, little more education, a little more of the potential benefits if they're on the downside of vaccines, little more of the potential risks if they're extremely pro. And just try to get that nuanced in there because they're not binary. It's not like they're perfectly safe and it's not like they don't do anything at all.
So there are it is a complex subject, but I do put those things. We have some protocols we use with patients. When I was on our nonprofit website right now that we kind of use when people need to detoxify from some of the things that are in them include a Sauna is one of them. Sometimes we'll use homeopathic remedies if patients are into that and Vitamin C, Adelia wholefood C.
And do you also take that into consideration when they're considering different vaccines? Like, are you looking at them like case by case basis, or are you just in general lumping together?
Always a case by case basis. I'm blessed to be able to spend 30 to 60 minutes with people. So it's really like customized individual doing testing if they're able to. We're looking at if we have both their parents, you can kind of guess that both parents have a genetic trait. Then, you know, the kid's going to have it. We really do it case by case basis.
It's really sad that we can't do more research with vaccines and genetic mutations for people that would one take way too much money than they're willing to put in, but also take a lot of resources and, you know, I was even thinking, you know, Dr. Campbell, you've been doing blood work on people before and after the covid vaccine, and you've been seeing some really remarkable numbers changing very drastically before and after the vaccine. I wish we could do research on this. I wish everyone that was part of the research of these covid vaccines. We were actually checking blood work markers to see what is the actual reaction. We're not just watching them externally and being like, OK, are you going to die or not? You're alive, great. You know, like what's happening on an immune response level? What are the inflammatory markers doing? What's like SRP doing? What are the white blood cells doing? What's happening? Can you imagine a study were actually looking at blood markers before and after. It'd be amazing to give us so much data on how our bodies really are handling it. Right?
Exactly. Yeah. I actually have a proposal into one of our labs to do that exact study and offer that is like for me and other practitioners to offer basically like half off or extremely discounted before and after. But the thing is not a lot of people would want to do that study or participate in that.
Because a lot of people sort of want to get a vaccine and not really admit that there could be a downside. It's hard to admit that we might be to blame that could save lives, but is and could have a potential adverse side effect.
Right and an adverse side effect that..
We are doing that research.
Yeah, well, and an adverse side effect that is not showing now, but can show later down the line. Like, you know, ignorance is bliss sometimes, right?
So monitoring just immune markers or what all are the markers that you're monitoring? Just immune or other things as well?
Yeah, so we're checking immune markers, a lot of inflammatory markers. What we noticed was we're also monitoring some cardiovascular risk markers because there is a Dr. Patrick we want an MD PhD that was wrote a letter to one of the primary medical journals talking about logical concerns he had before the vaccine came out in full force. And here we are basically doing because he was concerned that potentially the part of the spike protein that the mRNA creates that protein could cause some cardiovascular risk before or part of why people are reacting to these vaccines before you make a neutralizing antibodies and then take care of it. So the ones we're doing are basically high sensitivity, C reactive protein and homocysteine, which are checking for blood and cardiovascular inflammation and cellular inflammation. We're looking at a cholesterol panel, lipid panel, CBC with differential CMP, sort of like liver gall bladder and some separate markers.
So you're really digging deep to see what happens after.
Why didn't fully expect to dig deep, but the story behind it was I had a patient who had a moderate reaction and 60 percent of women who are getting the mRNA vaccines after the first or second will get lymph swelling or lymph nodes swelling in their armpit, usually as side of the vaccine. And so they're warning women to not get their mammograms within like a month or to they have that swelling, that could cause a false positive for like a mammogram screening. So when 60 percent of people are having that happen, it only happened in less than five percent in the trials. But when you extrapolate that to millions of people, the trial data is not always accurate. So we had one of those patients where we were just doing her yearly bloodwork by chance, actually was doing it quickly. A 10 minute blood in the morning, didn't know she had the shot and then I was like calling. I was like, what is going on with your body? Because their inflammation was twenty eight times normal in her liver and her liver enzymes and some of the other enzymes were super high. So I was like red flag. The lab actually called me, it was like, is this patient OK?
Oh my gosh.
Well, basically she was just having a postup reaction. So I was like, OK, let's redraw your bloodwork, see if this goes down, which eventually it did. But it was still kind of like a red flag that I put on social media and sent to other doctors to sort of like, let's actually start doing some of this research to see what's really going on.
And I've done about four patients now because like I was saying, patients want to do this research, but most of them are looking fine. But it seems like the people who had covid and from other doctors I'm talking to who are trying to do this, people who had covid and then got the vaccine within six months afterwards or at all are having more of these reactions. So it's kind of like you already have some antibodies and you have a T cell response naturally to the infection. But then if you kind of like overstimulate and maybe create more antibodies than you might need that could create more of this kind of immune activation.
And these are a bunch of question marks that people are just having to figure out on their own. This hasn't been researched on and so doctors like you are talking and they're saying, hey, here are some red flags that we're seeing. Can we talk about how the covid vaccine is actually different from the others where using buzzwords like mRNA and all that? How is it different from typical vaccines?
So the mRNA technology is new, but not new. It's new and as far as like mass human trials and studies, but it has been around for almost a decade or more. But it's new because the delivery system is newer technology. So old school classic type vaccines are basically giving either alive or dead virus or part of the virus to an injecting that with some other things into your body to get your body to respond to a low dose of the virus, kind of like Princess Bride, where he starts taking small amounts of toxins over time to build up his immunity to the toxin. It's basically like that is stimulating a small immune response where you usually don't get sick when you get the vaccine but you build response to that live or dead virus or bacterial particle that's trying to build defense against. So the mRNA is different because what the mRNA is doing is basically creating proteins in your body, that the mRNA basically is what a messenger RNA. You have your DNA and then you have your RNA in the DNA is like your blueprint, your code. The RNA is basically the language of trying to read that code in trying to program it into proteins to actually make something useful out of your blueprint in your house. So it's basically like the people going to get to work to make the house. And the message is basically all that's being inserted. It goes into the cell with P.I.G in into the cell, and then the mRNA goes to your ribosomes and basically makes the protein so it doesn't go directly to the DNA. And the biggest misconception when you hit on a little earlier in some of the natural health community that was sort of bothering me was that they say like, oh, it's the vaccine is trying to manipulate or change your DNA. You're going to be like a Chimaira or a completely new human afterwards, which is not in any way scientifically proven or there's basically no logical reason why that would ever happen.
So mRNA technology is basically just inserting some language to try to create protein antibodies, create these proteins like proteins and part of this protein, and then your body creates antibodies against it and you have a defense against covid-19.
This is how I, and correct me if I'm wrong, and I probably should have, like, brushed up on my cell physiology, but this is how I always think of it. I always say the DNA is kind of millions of chapters in a book. Right? And it's hiding in your cell and you open up, like if your body wants to create a certain protein, it will go to page like two million, three hundred and sixty two, it'll come in, create a photocopy of that page and then take that photocopy and make the protein and then that book closes and goes away. Right?
That's a great analogy.
Right. Thank you. Thank you. And so your DNA is the book with the chapters and so we're just figuring out what chapter we want to use and photocopy and then take that photocopy and make protein. And so the mRNA is kind of like the photocopy machine. Right? It makes like the blueprint and then it takes that blueprint to the ribosomes and it makes the spike protein. So the chapters in the book hasn't been altered or changed at all. We just brought a different type of photocopy machine and not your normal natural photocopy machine. It's a completely different one. The book, your Gazis DN you guys is totally fine. It's just a different machine, oKay? So I really love that you explained it that way and that you are calling people out because, you know, Junk Pseudo-Science gives everyone kind of in our world a really bad reputation and I'm hoping that we can bring to light like actually no we do know our stuff and we are trying to remain neutral and we're seeing both sides. So thank you for describing that.
That is how the vaccine is different. Are there long term health effects of the vaccine that are known right now? According to research and what we're seeing in the public eye?
So none are known right now. It's going to take some time really to sort of like do some of these studies. And some of the people on the initial trial were given the vaccine later. So they can't be followed for years because after the trial was over or the set time for a couple of months was over, then they were given the vaccine to possibly help them if they wanted it. So we sort of have to just track the overall patient population at this point. So we really don't know the long term health effects.
We're basically guinea pigs right now.
Logic is fast. Science is slow. Data and doing research takes a long time to do sometimes like years, decades, it can take a full career to sort of like prove a medical point. And even then, if you're doing something that's contrary to the regular belief, you're going to basically be like shamed or made fun of or there's going to be like, oh, we just crazy or conjectured, whatever it is. There's people like Dale Bredesen, who's wrote tons of books, tons of research on Alzheimer's and kind of like reversing cognitive decline.
But he's been ridiculed by his profession and finally they're actually accepting him as like, wow, this guy really knows what he's talking about. His research is really good news. He is customizing the medicine and the patient. That's we should act like we should do medicine like that. For thirty years, he was made fun of. But the long term effects of health and interventions takes a while. And we just don't fully know yet what's going to happen from this new technology.
Interesting. So basically we are the long term research project. We're just waiting and watching and we're seeing because I mean, we've only known of covid-19 for just over a year. Longitudinal studies are five, ten, fifteen years. We just have no idea. There is no guarantee, basically. Actually, while you were talking, I was trying to look up the one research paper, did you guys hear of this research paper done on homes? It was a oh, I can't remember what kind of study it was, but I think you will know exactly what I'm talking about. It was done on home schooled kids and it was looking for neurological issues in each like home schooled vaccinated children and home schooled non vaccinated children. Have you guys heard of that research paper by chance? No.
I have not.
I have. I have. Yeah.
Yeah and what was really interesting, it was really hot for a few weeks and it was actually a peer reviewed study paper, but it's been completely kind of like blacklisted and it's really hard to find now. It was really interesting that, you know, they compared and again, it's not the best research, but, you know, we are reviewing we're looking at different populations and we're seeing a disconnect or we're seeing a difference in neurological development in people that are vaccinated and unvaccinated. Again, this is a longitudinal effect that I think people don't love to hear. And again, you can have neurological issues and still be alive. And so that's a risk that you are willing to take, I think people should know these are your risks and you are in choice if you want to do it or not. And so I just want to give you guys have heard of that. So why isn't the vaccine approved for children?
I think mostly because children and the elderly tend to either not react or need different vaccines than people from 13 puberty, 18 years of age to about fifty five. Sixty five. So your immune system is developing and changing a lot. And you generally have a really strong immune system as a child and then when you're elderly, you know, I don't like to classify someone as old, but medically, I think when you're like retired or over 75 or 80, your immune system, your T cells, your thymus does start to decline a little bit for most people. So the vaccines work differently in those populations and they're either more effective or less effective. So a lot of research to protect children is also not done at first with most vaccines. It's done in adults who are less likely to have negative reactions to these things. And if they do have reactions like they're an adult, we don't feel as bad about it. That's why there's not a lot of research on children for these things.
But it's not approved. I think it's just starting to get approved and Dr. Foushee was talking about how he sort of is starting to recommend it for children now, but it still hasn't been really tested and they're starting to do those trials now.
OK, we briefly spoke about some short term side effects of the vaccine, like, you know, this swelling in breast tissue. Are there any other kind, any other known short term side effects of this vaccine that people should be mindful of?
Yeah, the most common ones are where you get the shot, some pain or swelling. The rest of your body could have fever, chills, tiredness or headache. So some people are getting like achy, almost like fluish for two hours to a few days.
Like a normal flu vaccine or something.
It depends on the person. I think we like that nothing too new or different. They're rare cases of adverse side effects but we want to talk about that.
Would you say that with those short side effects, like feeling like you have the flu, is it just something it's like, oh, this is temporary, it's uncomfortable, or is there something that's a concern with that, that it's like you really don't feel well aside from just you need to get over it, is there any concern with that they feel they have a bad flu?
There's generally not a concern, no. I mean, some of our research shows it could be mildly concerning, which is why we're doing that research. But the vaccines are meant to stimulate your immune system and we use them to fight off infection, usually get a fever. So everyone is trying to suppress a fever with medication, could be somewhat harming their long term immune protection from those things, which is why they were telling people who are getting the vaccines to not really use Tylenol unless they really needed itbecause when you get a fever, when you're sick or when you're creating antibodies, you also that fever helps you create long term defense. So when you do take Tylenol or fever suppressants, when you're sick, sometimes you don't get the T cell memory immune support that's as good as you need. So it's not concerning to have those side effects. And the reason why I'm not talking about the ones that are super rare is because, again, we don't really know if that was just happening in the trials or not. I just don't want to cause more people to be scared than they need to be.
Right, absolutely. And do we know how long? Because..
There are other things that are happening from some of these facts.
So do we know how long the vaccine is supposed to confer immunity? Because we know that the virus is mutating so quickly. And so I guess that's two different questions. So do we know how long the vaccine is supposed to last? Is it supposed to be lifetime ? Short, like, do we get booster shots?
So what I've been saying since the beginning is that this is more once it becomes past the tipping point where tons of people have had this thing and it's likely to become endemic, sort of like a flu or cold season where it might last forever or it could last for five years or 10 years before it sort of dwindles down and the flu becomes more virulent or more contagious, which means this is likely going to become more like a flu shot and where you might need a booster, you might need the new type every year. And the benefit of the mNRA is that they can actually tweak it and have more shots ready to go within weeks to a month because it's much easier and faster to develop in production, because all I have to do is change the protein code and then create it. So I then have to grow it as much like other old vaccines. But we don't know how long it lasts. At the beginning, the lowest one people were saying, like it might only be two months of benefit. That was North Carolina Department of Health and Human Services. And then there are people who are saying six months of benefit could obviously, like the CEO of Pfizer and Moderna, are saying it could last like a year or more. It's a good sign. It shows it does seem to stimulate some T cell memory, memory T cells and helper T cells, which means it could last longer than the two to six months initially thought but we really have no idea. Logically, based on other past vaccine knowledge, we can kind of estimate that it would be about three to six months because the virus mutates very regularly and there's now like four new ones in the US that were created just in the US. And viruses do tend to evolve or mutate to bypass whatever we put in front of them. So if we put masks or vaccines, we tend to get vaccine resistant flu or vaccine resistant covid or something like it becomes a little more contagious that goes around or through the mask more becomes more contagious that way. So I think that's why the flu vaccine is somewhere between 12 to 15 percent effective every year. By the time we make it out, give it to people to build a new defense, the virus has already mutated quite a bit. So it's not a perfect science.
So do you think that's what this will be like then? It is ongoing. Like we don't know. It's just indefinite. How long we might have to keep chasing it of vaccines like the flu vaccine versus like we did it, we beat it. It's done. We don't have to see any vaccines for covid anymore.
Yeah, that would be my best guess is that we're going to have to kind of keep doing a booster something every year. But there, because I believe so much of America has had this already is possible that it goes away in two to five years. I kind of look at some different resources, like I look at news from the left and the right from the Middle , from Reuters, BBC and I look at what the banks are predicting because the people with lots of money have lots of financial interest in what happens with covid and it's made off of it. And they were sort of saying they think it's going to last. Now, this is something like pre warn you, but they sort of it's conjecture obviously, but they sort of were saying that the financial side effects will likely last for 2025. So it's kind of like the middle ground. If I think if I had to take a guess, I'd say it might be another couple of years before it's gone completely but we could probably get back to our fairly normal lives then. Some states are basically in their normal life anyways.
Is it kind of like where we hit a point where so many people have it. Do you think it will hit a point where we're like, well, masks really aren't necessary anymore not because covid is gone, but because so many of us have just gotten it already?
I believe so. My hope is that we let go of the masks thing at some point because I don't like the headspace that it gives people and children in particular of fear in their bodies fearing germs because most germs are actually good for us and we're a hundred times more germs than human and a quadrillion viruses and every square meter of air, which is more stars in the universe. Fifty two percent of our DNA has been changed by viruses.
Actually all bad for us. They help our bodies evolve and adapt and grow and change. So the sort of the philosophy of the mask I don't really love. But at some point I think you're right, we'll have enough of a herd immunity, whether it's from natural immunity or from the vaccine induced immunity, however long that lasts. So I feel like the mask will probably slowly come off and some people will be like, I'm done with them. Some people are already done with them and other people are keep wearing them in certain circumstances. I think the middle ground that I would like to see that maybe should have happened a while ago is to wear like an actually effective mask when you're sick.
The problem with covid is that people there are certain times when there are asymptomatic or pre symptomatic spreaders of covid, but I think the one thing that will probably get taken away for a long time. My guess is our general culture will start to be more of like Asian cultures, where if you are sick, you're more likely to stay home from school or more likely to wear a mask out of respect for others.
I think my biggest fear with all of this isn't even the mask thing, but it's our culture that we are creating and generating because people are very hostile towards each other now. And that I feel like that is just as toxic, if not more. I mean, how much has mental illness gone up in the past year? And, you know, not even that, but economies in Third World countries are completely plummeting. And here in our first world country, we're not even conscious of that. That's not even on our radar. It's on my radar because I know a lot of people that live in South Africa, you know, and so I get the downloads all the time, like how the economy's doing there and it's not doing good. I think they're at over 50 percent unemployment in the country and it was high before. Yes, it's really bad. And it was pretty high before. It was like 35 percent unemployment and they're over 50 now. Half the country are unemployed and a lot of these people like these households, there's four families that live off of one person's paycheck. That person is unemployed. We have four families that are not getting fed. It's really dire. And I don't think we will ever, ever, ever be able to measure the ripple effect of other people's lives and other people's mental wellness and the amount of oh, I don't know, it's the word I'm looking for, hate and negativity that we are giving to each other in our society, you know, especially a country, our country that is so divided already. We just throw this inflammatory like topic in there and people are even angrier at each other when what we really need is more love and unity and respect. Right. We were supposed to be talking about masks, but, you know, masks are just the symbol of the bigger issue at hand here. And I hope that, I really, really hope that we can someday get to a point where we can heal these wounds that we have gaping open in our society right now. That's my thank you for coming to me to talk.
I just noticed that people just aren't I feel like is friendly and they're like just walking past people.
People just feel very on edge..
All the time.
They look at you like you are a disease, didn't like fearful and nobody smiles and say hi, how are you anymore. I feel like the friendliness has gone down a lot.
I see a little bit of both. Yeah. I'm the guy like trying to just wake everybody up and try to like sing and dance and be friendly and smile at people with my eyes and that kind of stuff. But I see a little bit of both. And some people, like children, will join in and come dance with me later like I was at the airport and like I got some kids to dance with me today. That was fun. But I feel like there are people where, you know, my intuition, I'm like up there. I can just feel like I'm like singing and whistling and doing whatever outdoors. And I can sense like, oh they're not going to like that and they like, roll down their car window, close their windows, you know, to hide. But there are other people who are sort of like bonding and coming together more than ever.
During this time. That's also really nice to see. And it just takes a couple of us sort of like start to preach love and unity and connection. We've learned how much we need to touch people and be in real connection with people and in person.
All these CEOs who are like, wow, we can't wait to have everybody work from home and are going to be more productive and get more done. They're going to like be with their kids. And then they're like, wow, they're actually less creative. There's a lot of downsides to not having people meet in person.
And the morale of the team sort of drops a little bit. So there's definite side effects. I definitely agree with Juanique about how and I guess I saw something two hundred seventy million people are going hungry because of the lockdown. So it's a very complex, nuanced subject to mental health and children has doubled..
And children? wow
And children mental health illness has double. The prescription meds start of the pandemic and even now are going up for psych meds.
That's so sad.
There is a high school, the lead high school football player near Chicago and the burbs here who was like a friend of a friend, he committed suicide, their quarterback. So that actually caused a big devastation in our community, but it led the school to open up sooner, kind of like come together over it, which is great. But there's so much tragedy happening because of how we're reacting to this. But I think you're right. People don't see it in other countries. They sort of see like, well, my family's fine or my town's fine. But the big picture perspective is pretty rough. And this does happen in like every pandemic in history, avenues of research and like 1918, this is what happens, unfortunately, like the lower classes and Third World countries do sort of like take the hit.
It's just going to be a long repair healing, growth and process of sort of like charity for the people who are able to do that.
Right. Is this a good time to maybe talk about the culture around the vaccine debate or conversation? I don't even want to call it a debate because people go into a debate trying to win. Right? Is this a good segue to talk about the vaccine conversation and why it is so polarizing? And why do you think there is so much gaslighting around people's stories when they say, I have a vaccine and your child or I was vaccine injured or I know someone that's vaccine injured? Why are we not okay listening to these people's stories, do you think? Because it's just, I think---
A great question.
Right because I do want to say that vaccines do save lives. They do and I want to say that it saves a lot of lives. But we also need to recognize, too, that it is not 100 percent safe. And so allowing people to be educated about the risks and they're small risks. But if we get more educated, like you were mentioning, Dr. Campbell, about like our empty for gene mutations, what was the other gene that you were talking about in the beginning that you had? What was that one called?
I think it's the HQ gene, HQ2. HLA-DQ2
Is that the one that you can't do detox mold as well, very rarely, or is that a different one I'm thinking of? It's probably different, never mind.
That's very similar. I have a whole chart, but the HLA genes are all like immune system genes that relate to mold and autoimmunity.
OK, but like this is real. Like we do have these genes in us and they do inhibit us from doing certain things. I'll kind of give an example. I shared this on my stories because a lot of my followers have asked, are my children vaccinated? Well, one is and one isn't. And the reason why that is, is I actually did a delayed vaccine schedule for my son Tenison. I wanted his neurological system to be like fully developed and his immune system to be really stabilized and his gut microbiota to be a little bit more mature. So we vaccinated him after the age of three. He was three and a half. And I watched him and I monitored him throughout the ages of one to three. And I was like, OK, like everything looks kosher. Let's do this. With my daughter, not so much. She was born with a sacral dimple. She has fuzed kidneys. She had these stork bites. She had all of these signs and symptoms of change of gene mutations. And so when I look at her case history, I'm like, I don't feel I have the worst kind of gene mutations. Right. And I've had health issues in my past and so I'm actually very, very careful about what I put in my body and on my body and I and I've been mindful of that for years and years and years. So when I look at my daughter and I see her signs and symptoms of her mutations and I'm like, OK, she's definitely got more issues with her methylation than her brother. You know, she bruises easily. And so she's not going to as long as I can do it for until they force vaccinate. And hopefully that doesn't happen. I won't vaccinate her just because of her genetic makeup. So that was a choice that I could make based on my education and my my background and knowing my children. And I think that's what I want people to understand listening like one, you should have the choice. You shouldn't be shamed into making a decision. You are entitled to knowledge around your health history in your family and your children, and then you should make an informed decision and not be bullied into that decision and it should be respected. And we're not having that respect in this world.
I'm curious, have you had pushback from other people? I always wondered,you know, I don't have children. So I thought that was really difficult. And if I had children and they had gene mutations, you know, will I also make that call and, you know, have you had a hard time with other parents and the decisions that you've made?
No. I mean, Tristin was very on board. Before cancer Tristin, he was very like, we have to vaccinate bla bla bla bla bla. And then after cancer Tristin was like, actually, wait a second, when I'm looking at the research, like there are these other factors, I haven't been shamed by friends or family. Maybe they're keeping it to themselves and that's fine. I live in a pretty conservative state that's very pro freedom. So the only pushback that I've had is we have to watch this really dumb video when we enroll our kids into public school. And it's basically a video shaming you for not vaccinating your child. And so we just watch it and then we check. Yes, we watched it. And yeah, it's like, see how dangerous you are being. Look at how this child is dangerous to the other children in the classroom. And we're like, yeah, OK, thanks. Thank you for that. But that's it. And I think my circles of friends are pretty crunchy. So they don't try to shame me about that, but I know other people aren't as lucky as me, and they have tons of pushback. Oh, the most shaming I get are actually from doctors. So doctors, they kind of give you the side eye and they're like, well, you know, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, yes, I know. I know these things. Thank you. And so they treat it like there's a lot of pressure to vaccinate your children. And then they give you the lecture of while you're just being dangerous and blah, blah, blah. And, you know, I just have to double down and be like, I understand, thank you. This is a risk that my family is like-- this is what we're doing. I don't expect my children's doctors to understand methylation and MTHFR gene mutations, that's not their job. I pay them to do other things. It's my job to know my family's health history as much as I can. Right. They can understand our family's health history from a medical standpoint, but they're not trained in medical school to look at these things. They're they're trained to memorize their modalities and their protocols and their medications. Right. They're medical doctors. They're not geneticists in alternative circles. And so I'm not going to expect my doctor to be that person. So I hope that answered to your question. But no, I haven't had a lot of pushback and I guess maybe people are too scared to fight me on it. I don't know. I don't want to fight people on it. Let me just put that out there.
Glad you haven't had a lot of pushback here. I think I'm glad you haven't had a lot of pushback.
No, it's been really great. But I know people in California, they get a lot of pushback and a lot of shaming and a lot of women online that I talk with. A lot of them are actually trying to move out of state because of all the stuff happening in California right now. It's really tragic. But let me ask you guys, why do you think we are gaslighting people about their stories? How did we get here and why is this happening?
So I think it's because it's just a huge it would be a gigantic cognitive dissonance to admit that we might be harming children or might be harming anybody. Medical doctors, I have tons of family and friends and colleagues who I could treat with that are medical doctors and some who vaccinate and some who are pediatricians who vaccinate many children and some will vaccinate some of their clients. But it's just really hard to admit that one of the primary therapies they're doing could be making the vaccine children less healthy. Their immune system is less healthy over the decade or two that they're doing all these childhood vaccines, unvaccinated children. So it's not that they're bad people. It's not that they don't learn a lot of the research in school. They usually only get like less than a class. Usually it's like a class or two or a day or two on the vaccines. And a lot of those textbooks are paid by Pfizer, paid by the pharmaceutical companies. So it's kind of like they're getting the one side of the story. And like you said, you can't expect them to be a geneticist or be on the cutting edge of medicine because medical schools typically 20 to 50 years behind the times, because the board exams take about fifty years to sort of change to modern medicine and modern scientific understanding and knowledge. So it takes a generation before these things start to evolve. And the MTHFR gene, those things might become part of genetic vaccine genomic research. But I think it's just why my veterinarian was able to admit that dogs have the vaccine reactions that are well known and well researched but a pediatrician is not always able to talk about those things, is because we care about children so much often more than ourselves. I'm not a parent, but even my dog, like sometimes you care more about your dog and people are willing to spend five thousand dollars on your dogs with like a lump surgery, but not fifty dollars on an organic steak or something like that.
So I think we care so much about our children and pets, but it would just be a huge cognitive dissonance to admit that there might be some downside to these things, especially when it's unfortunately become very politicized and very heated. Right. And doctors don't like being wrong. They don't like admitting that they might be doing something wrong. But fifty percent of medical procedures are not understood or proven by science. And there's a lot of things that take a ten to twenty years to really reverse. Like sometimes the arthroscopic surgery is completely shown to not work in any type of science besides just like placebo, but we still do it or we still give antibiotics for most ear infections. For most ear infections. We don't need to give antibiotics. There's a lot of things that just take 20 to 50 years to really start to shift. I think the only way to start to shift it is to really love your doctors. It's like when you want to argue with someone, you usually sometimes you can just like bulldoze them and yell at them. But most of the time, if you do it from a loving, compassionate place and you start to understand, like, look, they really care. They're just trying to do the best they can with what they know. You might more about your father than your doctor now. What you might inspire your doctor to go look those things up if you come from a place of love and compassion. So that's what I try to do with every doctor I consult with, and that really helps a lot.
I love that.
So you're not telling him like I know more than you or you might be wrong or look at this research. You are like, hey, have you seen this? Like, I'm concerned. I'm trying to do the best for my kid. I know you mean well, but like, I have these other doctors who are talking about MTHFR and Vaccine Genomics, and I'm a little concerned. Can you, like, look it up and read this book for me or whatever it is? But when you come from compassionate helps hugely.
I love that.
One thing I'd love to hear if this is just talk or if there's any truth around this too that. I'm hearing with the vaccine, that it may not necessarily help with viral transmission and keeping that from happening, but just lessening your symptoms and making it easier on your body if you do get it. Is there truth around that?
There is a lot of truth around that. That's probably one of the most important points we haven't mentioned so far. And that's why they're saying stuff, to wear a mask or distance afterwards, because it might help with lowering transmission or lowering your chance of getting infections. But that's not what it was really designed to do, nor what it was studied to do our research to do, because there were people in the trial that got the vaccine and still got covid. There were and the data was not that great. If you want to really dove deep into it, you can look at Peter Doce and the British Medical Journal. He sort of talks about the downsides of the trial data and what that means. But one of those downsides was that there are still people getting the vaccine who could spread covid and they could spread covid more unknowingly because they have mild symptoms, because 80 percent of people have no symptoms or mild symptoms anyways. And now we're going to vaccinate a lot of people. There's going to be even more people having more mild symptoms. So that could be a great thing because it could end covid faster and these all spread covid and get covid without knowing it or 80 percent of people don't know it. It could end the pandemic even sooner, which could be like a knowing good thing. But it does, yeah, we really just don't know yet but we are pretty sure that you can still get covered in the spread of the virus.
Could it be fair then to say like, OK, let's say I'm young, I'm healthy, I feel like I've got a good fighting chance that if I get covid it'll maybe won't feel good, but I'll be OK. Like, is it fair to be like if it's lessening my symptoms, I'll take my chance, I'll skip the vaccine. I mean, there's so much of an uproar around like if you don't get the vaccine, you're being irresponsible. But I feel like this would kind of negate that. Would you say that that's you know, is that OK?
I think that's accurate. It's totally accurate because the vaccine would not be protecting anybody except for yourself. So there are people because they're basing it off what they know about old vaccines, they're basically saying like, oh, I'm going to get it so I protect my grandma. But really, if you're younger and you get the vaccine, you might have covered but not know it and be less likely to know it and you actually might hurt your grandma even more.
That's so interesting.
So interesting. I'm so glad we brought that up. I know. Interesting.
Because that's definitely not a narrative that everyone's talking about. Like no one is saying that, like, it doesn't necessarily mean you get the vaccine and now you've done your part. No, you haven't. You can still be a carrier. That's so fascinating. Sorry. Keep going. Dr. Campbell. I interrupted.
You know, pretty much done. I think that's kind of it's a really important point. And for most people, I'm saying, like a lot of people say, like, well, when it's bad, it's like the flu or when it's bad, it's like a bad pneumonia. I think my personal take is that there's the vasculitis, vascular inflammation that happens recurving and then secondary infections like bacterial infections or parasitic or mold candida infections can make it much worse, which is why they're also using antibiotics or other things like ivermectin or anti parasitic to basically like try to fight the infection or basically co infections and getting some success with that.
But I think that for people who feel like they could handle covid, it's totally OK for you to say I'm young, I'm healthy, I'm willing to take the risk of getting covid or I don't think I had covid or maybe I'm going to check my antibodies to see if I already had covid and if you already had covid, there's really not much of a need to get the vaccine and we're doing the most well researched antibodies in the entire US that Mayo Clinic helped develop with our lab. And we check for twelve antibodies, not just one or two. And we're finding that they last for nine to 12 months, not just three to four. So that's a big key point, is that you might actually be protected for nine to 12 months after and the T cells could last four years after you had covid.
And these and that the majority of America has pretty much already had covid. Yeah, so the numbers as far as like cases and deaths and all that are likely way off, way high and way low in different ways. But what we do know logically is that 20 percent of Chicago and California, New York had antibodies in July. Northwestern University was doing more studies. We know that 20 percent had antibodies. Those antibodies will start going away. So we can't keep doing that research, unfortunately. But with how the cases have gone in the winter, we should be at 40 to 60 percent of kind of like those major areas by now. So it's something to think about, maybe the majority of the country doesn't need the vaccine because they already have this natural reaction.
Right. Well, and that it's just mutating like the flu, like we mentioned earlier, it's mutating. So we're going to have to update the vaccine all the time anyway. So if you had antibodies for the mutation from three months ago, you are still going to be exposed to the mutation now, you know, so you're still going to potentially get a different type of covid, right. So we're always chasing ghosts. And when really I mean, we haven't even started to discuss this aspect, but people are not emphasizing nutrition enough and health and wellness. You know, Gina, you used the word irresponsible. People are saying that you're irresponsible if you don't get the vaccine but isn't there like aren't we being irresponsible by not taking care of our bodies? I mean, there's been research around having adequate amounts of vitamin D can decrease your chance of getting infected or having really bad symptoms. You know, having adequate amount of vitamin C can help with that. People that tend to have less diseases. Yeah, like eat more plants. Right. Get more sunlight. Aren't we being irresponsible by not taking care of ourselves? Because ...
Oh so irresponsible.
We're so irresponsible.
Nobody talks about how important it is, like your mitochondrial reserve that like your mitochondria, your cells can actually be healthy enough so that you can mount a proper immune response.
To be able to get enough nutrients and nobody's talking about, like just having a nutrient dense diet so that your cells can work properly and your body can actually have enough metabolic reserve to be able to have a proper immune response.
I know that we're pretty sure this is going to be here for months to years. It's really important to start to take care of your health and take care of those things, because there's tons of research showing C zinc quercetin, which is gets the zinc in the cell plant based diets. The less frail you are, the more healthy you are, the less inflammation you have. Those patients with less comorbidities are doing much better than the other patients who are getting it. And like, yes, it's one of those things that I think we should have been preaching from the start, like no doctor is perfect. I think Dr. Fouche is generally doing a good job but he was taking D, C and zinc all year and until the fall, he did come out and say it's like, why is our public health system not telling us to take care of our health, start working out, getting healthier? That should be like one of the first steps into building your immune system, not an afterthought.
Right. I think I've seen on like the CDC guidelines, maybe one or two paragraphs of like make sure you're getting adequate nutrition and then everything else is like masks this and mask thatand like the policies are always changing and social distancing and this and that and, you know, everything. It's not a black and white situation, you know, and unfortunately, we've turned it into black and white. And there's so many shades of gray here. And I think it's very unbecoming as a society for us to point at someone else and say you're doing it wrong and you're being irresponsible because we can have a person A get a vaccine, drink tons of soda and eat McDonald's all day. Someone like me could say, well, you're being irresponsible, right? And then they turn around and they see me exercising, eating plant-based, eating my healthy foods not getting vaccinated and say I'm being irresponsible and we're going to get nowhere with that kind of attitude. Right. I'm really hoping that discussions like this can kind of dissolve the black and white debates and allow us to just really see each other as individuals with differing opinions and differing belief systems and core values. And we can just respect that and recognize that we're all trying the best we can with what we know and none of us want more people to die. Right. So I'm going to show up for my society the best way I know how. And someone else is going to show up the best whether they know how. And it's just going to look different. So this faulting everyone, I'm hoping that we can stop this victim mentality because we're not all victims and we're not all villains. And, you know, like we I think when we get stuck in that mindset, it's just going to snowball more hate and vitriol and disrespect in our society that already has so much of that.
I couldn't agree more.
Is there anything else that you guys want to.. Dr. Campbell, can you tell everyone you have an Instagram you have like a YouTube channel, right? How do people find your info and more about you and what you do?
So I started a nonprofit right before covid to help lower-income but because of covid, we had to switch to online education. But if you look up just Google Health Assurance movement, it'll come up its healthinsurancemovement.Org is our website and that links to the Instagram and nonprofit and that kind of stuff. Our YouTube channel is also a health insurance movement. So I have some old lectures on adrenals and thyroid and stuff like menopause that I did on there. And so that's all up there on YouTube. There's some old stuff and then there's some like video blogs I've been doing. We're doing a cooking show. We have the first three episodes up of a cooking show going on and then a holistic D-R Campbell on Instagram also there as well for kind of more of my uncensored self. YouTube is like more of the professional side and Instagram is sort of like the fun, playful side comedian working on that.
That's really cool.
I put a lot of stuff like short videos to just entertain and kind of get some thought provoking info out there.
Oh, you're a man of many hats.
This conversation was so refreshing. Yeah, and it's been so nice to be able to have this conversation. I've been a little bit resistant to having covid and vaccine discussions because of the intensity on each side and not like a willingness to be able to just look at like what is the data? What is does it make sense from a science perspective? And just to be able to have not a half such a passion driven conversation without talking about the evidence. Ad so this has just been so refreshing.
Yes. Thank you, you guys.
I agree. It's been a really, really beautiful conversation.
Thank you and the takeaway that I get is just depending on if you're young or old, your genetic makeup, deciding whether to get the vaccine is very, very personal. For me and my family, there's just not enough longitudinal data for me. So I guess I'm seeing on air like I don't feel comfortable vaccinating my children yet, but I am going to wait and watch and see what data like Dr. Campbell and other doctors like him bring up to the surface as they do their own private testing on their clients and patients.
What about for people who maybe recently got covid or whether they're fighting it or they're trying to prevent it? Do you have resources?
It's a great question.
AssuranceMovement.org there's a coronavirus section where you have kind of like immune system protocols or some of the detoxification immune support that could possibly help logically with some of the vaccine reactions. And we have a bunch of that stuff on there for free for people to look at.
Things that you and I were mentioned earlier, like glutamine and vitamin C and all that stuff. There's basically healthinsurancemovement.org has a bunch of those free resources on there for people.
Fantastic. Awesome. Well, you guys, thank you so much for bringing in your knowledge and your talents around this. Dr. Campbell, how do you do all of these things like you must be working from sunup to sundown because you got a lot of platforms and a lot of websites and you see patients. It's very impressive. Do you sleep?
Yeah, I do. I do do quite a lot. Now I sleep. I go to bed at like eight and then I wake up at four and start doing education and research and while I'm working out in the morning and then work from seven to seven, go home, eat, sleep again. And then I'm a three day weekend that really decompress.
Oh, that's really good.
I'm super passionate. I love it and I've just been loving this medicine ever since I got in a decade ago.
I love it. Well, thank you again for your time. Gina, thank you for cohosting with me and you listeners, thank you for listening. If you've made it this far, hopefully we can go about these topics more gently with, like, softer hands because there's so much repairing that we need to do from each side. And I hope someday we can get to a point where we can discuss these things without the headedness and the anger and resentment. So you guys, thank you for listening. Dr. Campbell, thank you for your time. Thank you for doing all the research for people like us that don't have the time to do it. And until next time, you guys have a great week.
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