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Bread That Won't Kill You | How to Safely Reintroduce Grains

#ancestral_health #autoimmune #baking #bread #cancer #digestion #grains #health #healthy_food #healthy_living #holistic_health #nutrition #sourdough

Episode 60: Gutsy Health Podcast 


Show Summary: In this episode, Nathan, the founder of Time Traveler's Bakery, shares his health history & journey on how he started his company. He tells why he should watch every food he eats because of his autoimmune disorder. His chronic fatigue began when he was 14 years old up to the mid-20s. He experienced full-body pain from his back, lower and upper shoulders, neck, and head, which made him think that by the time he was 35, he'd probably have some assistance with a walker or wheelchair.

He then decided to go to a therapist and had some elimination diet, where he gradually felt that the pain was decreasing. He cut out some food that helped him overcome his depression and chronic fatigue, but he figured he still lacked the nutrients he needed. He knew he had to do something to get back to gluten and wheat without experiencing extreme pain, and that's how the Time Traveler's Bakery started.

They call their bakery "Time Traveler's bakery" because they believe in the phrase "Back In Time, Back In Health." He says if we go back in time and make it that old way, then autoimmune disorders might not exist anymore.

Important Links

Sunset Farmer’s Market

Time Traveler’s Bakery

Provo Health (gutsy - discount code)

Order their bread

3 Exceptional Highlights:

  • My body has worth, my spirit has worth, my brain has worth. I need to honor them and let them speak to me.
  • It’s a  balance thing, because we used to care about balance. And now it's all about marketability, right? So they are willing to sacrifice a lot of the underlying function and quality to get a more marketable product. It's like what we do with dogs, right? We breed them into this state where they have hip problems and back problems, nasal problems, eyesight issues, and all of that, but they look really good.
  • It's so important to reintroduce foods again, and make sure that you are feeding multiple species, multiple foods and you're rotating your foods, and you're eating like 50 different kinds of foods, 100 different kinds of foods, because that's what we did in the old days.

Show Highlights: 

Why should you get rid of Glyphosate?

16:00 Nathan

  • Modern wheat sometimes contains what are called desiccants, which we have referred to one of them as glyphosate. Glyphosates are commonly marketed under the name Roundup. Roundup is weed killer, we do apply it directly to our wheat supply in America.

We're eating the Chihuahua of wheat now.

19:58 Nathan

  • Think about who dogs’ ancestors were. They wolves righ? Now, think about a Chihuahua. Our modern wheat is literally called dwarf wheat. Our ancient wheat grew tall. I'm six two and it grew almost as tall as me sometimes.

What is Frankenstein food?

21:09 Nathan

  • Hybridization is very closely linked with GMO. Hybridization is going to be where we take wheat as a type of grass. So we're going to take this type of grass that grows really short and then we're going to crossbreed it with the natural normal wheat that grows really tall.

Just because it's organic, that doesn't mean it can't be heavily hybridized and heavily crossbred.

24:44 Juanique

  • So it's still hard to digest. It will still tear up your gut. It'll still cause a leaky gut, even though it's organic. Because now you don't have the glyphosate but you still have the high amount of phytic acid which is shelf stable, but not digestible. 

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This is the Gutsy health podcast with Juanique and Tristin Roney. Hey, guys, welcome back to the Gutsy Health Podcast. Hi, everyone. We we have a little treat for you because we're going to be talking about bread today.

We have Nathan Hessing on the podcast.

And Nathan, you are I call you the bread guy, because as most of my followers know, I don't like grains. I take most of my clients off of grains when we are trying to queue up their guts. But I understand that there is a time and a place for grains. Yes.

And that's what we want to talk about today. And Nathan, he he owns a company. It's called the Time Traveler's Bakery. Correct. And this is how I met him. This is how we met him.

We were at the Provo Farmer's Market and we were going by his stand. And I was like, tell me about your bread. And he said, this is the bread that people with autoimmune issues can't handle.

And I was like, what does that even exist? And so he's here to educate us on why that kind of bread can exist and why we have gotten to this point in the first place, because we we are all sick. Oh, yes.

Eating what we call Frankenstein food, of course, Frankenstein wheat. And so Nathan is going to tell us how we got here and how we can move away from it.

So, by the way, we we really, really love this bread. It's not just that people can handle it. It tastes incredible.

Unbelievable. People taste it in. Wow, this is the best bread I've ever had.

No, and that's what I thought, too, like, so good. Actually, when Nathan brought them into the clinic, we had most of our clinicians there that day and everyone was eating this like, holy cow.

And they had like a few days earlier, like, I just want that bread again. It's really good bread.

So and and we're also going to be giving away the opportunity for people anywhere in the country to get their hands on this, you know, some starter.

We're not going to ship you some bread might not be in such great shape by the time gets to you, but we're going to send out some starter to five people.

So we decided to find instructions on how to make it yourself and how to learn how this process works so you can really get down and dirty in your own kitchen. So we will tell you how to get yourself signed up for the the drawing on that toward the end here.

Exactly. Just know that this could be yours.

So, Nathan, tell us about you tell us about because he has a really cool story, too, of health issues and everyone needs to hear it because they will relate to it.

So tell us about you and your health history and your journey and how you started this company.

OK, first of all, I just want to say thanks for having me on here. This is amazing. I'm so happy that I get to tell more people about this bread, because it's literally changed my life. So the reason why we call our bakery Time Traveler's Bakery is because we believe in the phrase back in time. Back in health. Yes. If you go and do things the way that they were done before, autoimmune disorders were so rampant because I believe that they've always been a thing.

Yes. But they've been a razor's edge fringe thing and now they are the norm. Yeah. If you go back in time and make it that old way. Yeah. Then all of a sudden this stuff doesn't exist anymore. Right.

So that's how we make our products because we eat grains for thousands of years. That's why we survived. And then the past hundred years, we can't tolerate it anymore. Totally. The past twenty years we are allergic to it. Yeah, we are sick from it. Yeah.

Like what happened. Yeah. So you have to go back in time and I don't know if we've told you this before. We talk to our audience about this all the time, but we are all about getting back to the ancestral in almost every single aspect of life. We are healthier if we do what people did many, many generations ago. Yeah. And this is no exception. Not a surprise at all to me, but very, very exciting.

Perfect. Now, before we get into it, I want people to realize our ancestors ate bread and they ate greens and fruits and vegetables and full gamut of the diet, not just bread or Cheetos.

Yeah, yeah. McDonald's fries and bread. It was like Whole Foods and grains. Correct. That is still under that umbrella. Yeah, but it's been Frankenstein. Yeah.

And that's very important for me with my autoimmune disorder because I'm like we're saying I have a story myself, a health journey and I do have an autoimmune disorder. It is important that I watch everything that I eat, not just my bread intake, and so that I eat my fruits and vegetables and I have a wide range of colors and everything. Yes, but going a little bit more into my journey, I growing up, I was a cross-country runner, which is very demanding of your body and also very invigorating, really.

But I always had chronic fatigue and I never really figured out. I always kind of was like, maybe I get tired more fast and other people, or maybe it's just me and my teenage brain. You know, teenagers get tired. And then I went to college and or college people are tired or, you know, you're busy, but you don't realize that you were out of the norm until the crap hits the fan. Basically, yeah, and what that meant for me was all of a sudden for five years, I had full body pain.

Wow. How old were you?

I was twenty two when it started, I believe.

Wow. And the chronic fatigue, like when were you tired. So chronic fatigue like really started teenage type years. More like 14. Wow. That's so young. And then you're saying like what time of day was I tired.

I'm just like what. What. Like what your. Yeah. Like ages. And she was like teenage years up to mid 20s. Yeah. And I just thought, you know, I'm a busy human because I am a busy human. I'm a huge extrovert. I but no, that's not why you can be extroverted and not be tired, but just kind of discussing this full body pain, full body pain, my back lower and upper shoulders neck my head, I would get chronic tension headaches.

There was actually a period of time when Excedrin was pulled off of the market because there was a bad batch.

Oh, my gosh. I remember I called my mom and I was like having a breakdown because chronic headaches were part of my life. Yeah.

And then I had hip pain, knee pain. That's actually where it started. My head falling arches and things got so bad that I actually thought that by the time I was 35, I would probably have some assistance with a walker or a wheelchair.

Oh, my gosh.

I actually had a doctor, a chiropractor tell me I would need like full black back surgery by the time I was 30 now. And I'm like, oh, my gosh. So when we're told these things in our early 20s, yeah, it's really scary.

And I was told similar things that knee surgery would be a thing, does a number on you emotionally. Right. And you start to have all these stories play in your head about the terrible nature and. Yes.

Which this actually kind of transfers into. Another one of my symptoms, I had horrible mental health issues, so I had anxiety and depression. And I'm not talking like anxiety and depression that we all experience or even just, you know, our normal, quote unquote, level of anxiety and depression that's still diagnosable. I had to quit multiple jobs, careers. I actually I went to one of the top business schools in the nation and I graduated and had to quit my career well, because of how horrible it was.

Well, and so things were getting really bad. I actually then I gained 40 pounds because I couldn't take care of myself and the doctors telling you at the time.

So they were telling me, oh, it's coming from your hips. You need to do, you know, this type of physical therapy or it's coming from your knees, you know, those kind of coming from the base of your body.

And they were just telling you, like, take more pain pills, like all this stuff. Yes. Like no one ever told you.

You had autoimmune you have like you got no like your body is attacking itself.

It took years for us to get to the idea of autoimmune. Mm hmm. But even before we got to that idea of autoimmune, I just kind of was like, I need to go to therapy. I need to go to a therapist. And there are some things out. Yeah. And here's where things started to get really interesting, because I noticed as I went to my therapist, my pain levels started to go down. Amazing. Which is crazy.

We always forget that the brain is part of our body.

Yeah, yeah. It's a mind, body, spirit, connection, whatever that spirit looks like for you, whatever that brings you, like all three of them exists. And you have to take care of every one of them.

Yeah, absolutely. Actually in our hair analyzes emotions show up a lot. Oh. So it measures all these body systems and then emotions. Every time emotions come up, I'm like, oh crap.

Yeah. Like we got to go there. Yeah. And just speaking about emotions, autoimmune disorders usually come up after a traumatic experience, whether it be physical, like a car wreck or mental and physical like giving birth in a traumatic experience during that.

That's a very mental, physical, spiritual, all of it experience.

Totally. I agree with that.

So I again went to therapy. I started noticing some pain level is going down, but I couldn't, like, eradicate. It was just kind of like a little tic like I could notice I was kind of chipping away at that wall then I did in an elimination diet, which you guys did do it done a lot.


I put most of my people on an elimination diet like or some kind some some form of just not extreme because most people can't, like, handle the extreme.

But we do the big bad guys, the greens, the dairy, the corn, the soy, the sugar, the peanuts. Right. Yes.

So so you went did you go on it like an intense elimination diet?

So I it was kind of intense. So it was a modified whole 30, if that makes sense. Yes. What I did was I read the whole list of everything that whole 30 says to take out. Then I kind of let that sit in myself and say, which of these do I feel I need to take out first?

I love that body. Intuition.

That's amazing. How did you know to do that? I love it. I just that's just the way I work.

I just for me, it was also kind of a spiritual thing because I'm a very spiritual person. And I don't think that someone has to believe in God to be spiritual. I do personally. But like I, that was a very spiritual experience for me. Yeah. Just seeing my body has worth my spirit is worth my brain has worth like I need to. Honor them and let them speak to it. Thank you. No, because with my clients like one of my one of my clients this week, just this is so important.

And I want to hone in on it so that people that are listening like you need to be a part of your healing process. You don't just let people dictate it to you. Don't let me dictate it to you. Don't let a doctor dictate it to you. I had a client.

I put on a protocol and she she did it and she just wasn't feeling good. And she text me and she's like, I'm taking myself off of all of this because I don't feel good. And I texted her back and I said, I am so proud of you for listening to your body and doing that. And she said that. And she said that text made a ball, you know, because once she has been so traumatized, like she has PTSD from doctors just hounding.

How did he seem? Yeah. And so she and I was like, wait, I made you cry.

I'm so sorry. She's like, no, no, no. It's a very benign text. But you didn't realize, like, the power you gave back to me. Right in that. And so her using her intuition and me just being around on the edges, like saying, hey, let's try this direction now.

Yes. You have to be the pilots on the ship. Right. So I'm so glad you brought that up.

But it's more than just that, right? It's actually trusting yourself just to listen to your intuition and then also saying I'm probably going to be wrong or not know some things and will adjust as we go.

Yes, I'll learn that. Oh, wait, I don't have to cut out sugar 100 percent, but I do have to be aware that I only eat it in dark chocolate or, you know, whatever, because. You have to adjust as you go. Exactly, that's part of the learning experience. Exactly. So, yeah, I did this elimination diet. What I ended up cutting for myself was I cut gluten, dairy rice and then like beans, legumes, nuts, that kind of stuff, which in then and not that naturally limited my sugar intake.

Because when you cut gluten in rice. Yeah. You're not eating sugar unless you're friend of mine saying I would like some sugar, which in my opinion is the only time we should be eating sugar is Roney in front of mind when it's intentional. Yeah, exactly.

Sugar is not great, but if it's intentional then that's a little bit different than just having it in everything and bringing in that emotional piece of it, doing it, knowing that this is something that I'm going to enjoy and it's going to make my experience more rich. Yeah, exactly. Does have benefits. Right. Will help to kind of counterbalance the fact that you're getting sugar as opposed to all of the hidden sugars. Can't even realize we're getting them.

And you're like, why am I so tired? Whereas if maybe you say, hey, I can eat this because I know that tomorrow is kind of my day off and it is good for me to have a little bit every once in a while so I can feel like a human because that's important. So in front of mind is important and those are the things that I limited. When you think about gluten, dairy, rice and legumes, that's a lot of your nutrients.

It's a lot of them. Yeah.

And me being a tall, slim runner male who had just gained 40 pounds, but still but still for me, the weight just boom fell off. But I wasn't getting the nutrients I needed.

For example, I couldn't participate in running even though I now didn't have pain. When I cut those things out and did the mental health stuff, the pain went away. Yeah. And the anxiety and depression and everything that I named earlier, like, went away. Amazing the stuff that we thought I was gonna have surgery or all this stuff or went away. But still I couldn't run.

I was struggling to get the nutrients I needed. So it actually I was losing hair. I couldn't do a long car ride to my parents house because I was too afraid that I would fall asleep.

Well, yeah, well, and the worst thing I would say is with nutrient deficiency, if you're prone to anxiety or depression, you might be able to take bad things out of your diet and have the depression go away. But once you get nutrient deficient, the depression might start coming back, which is what happened with me.

Mm hmm. And I was just like everything that I'd taken out, I was okay with taking out with except for wheat. I was like, I feel like this is important. Yeah. I feel like it's really important that that I figure this out. So I just started doing research. And that's what led us to figuring out how people can have wheat and how people can have gluten back in their lives again.

So let's start there then. Yes. What went wrong?

Because, yes, grain is so toxic. Yes, it's so toxic. So how did we mess this up?

OK, so there's two key points that I discovered in my research and in my journey of figuring out how to get wheat back before you going to that are, you know, eating like nuts and legumes again.

You feel them. You've reintroduced everything, healed your leaky gut. You can eat like the whole spectrum of food.

I can eat everything except for just like your normal grocery store milk off the shelf. It doesn't hurt me, but it does make me constipated, to be honest. Yeah, but I can eat any like, hi ferment dairy, like, you know, like the cheese that they would have eaten. Naquin Yes I can time back in health. Yes. They didn't eat as much just raw dairy. They did, but even their dairy had let natural probiotics in it from the cow.


But we string that out in the natural process. Totally put it through now. So. So OK.

So where we went wrong. OK, so where we went wrong, there's two key points that we went wrong on. One is natural leavening or fermentation. And then the one that we really want to get in today was wheat quality. So first thing I want to talk to you guys about is wheat quality.

Yes. OK, please. Yes. So wheat quality.

If we take the phrase back in time, back in health, let's talk about ancient wheat. Ancient wheat wasn't cleaned or treated with chemical processes.

Those processes and those chemicals didn't even exist back then. And to kind of get a little bit deeper into that, modern wheat sometimes contains what are called desiccant, which we have referred to. One of them is called glyphosate.

Yes, glyphosate are commonly marketed under the name Roundup. Roundup is weed killer. We do apply it directly to our wheat supply in America, and that is often applied seven to ten days before it is harvested to be given harvested basically to go to market. Right. The reason why we apply these desiccant is one of them being glyphosate is because what they do is they actually dry the wheat out. They they kill it and then dry it out so it's ready to harvest.

So it's dead. Another harvesting it. Correct.

But they do the manual killing. Whereas if you don't use the desiccant Mother Nature, the son naturally does. Is that weed out and it does have a dying process and you harvest it and then you eat it, but we are manually killing it and saying, oh, that thing that we're using to kill the wheat won't be a problem for you, though.

It's like, you know, so and I actually did an episode, you guys on glyphosate. So go back and listen to it, because scientists say it doesn't harm your proteins and your cells, but it does harm the species in your gut bacteria. Yeah. So believe that.

So that is where the issue comes in, where it's destroying the species down there that help with amino acid like synthesis, protein synthesis.

So so if you like that biome, don't eat glyphosate.

Totally. So keep going.

So along with that adding those glyphosate, those desiccant ancient wheat contained no additives or bromates. So an additive is what we do with our wheat now is we generally pull off different things, the brand, as well as different parts of it, to make it more of a milky white wheat. But in doing that, we usually pull out a lot of nutrients. So we have to add nutrients back into it manually rather than just using the nutrients that were used.

So counterintuitive. Why do we do this? We do this with cereal to do it, add back in like vitamin all of our foods. It's ridiculous.

It is. Even though those nutrients were already there. But we decided to take them off to make it more approachable to the palate. But it's just like, you know, actually if you make it all the way, it taste even better.


So along with us adding additives, we add what's called bromates. Nowadays, Bromates are made to make the dough have a better tension and structure, which we pay for that dearly because Bromates are actually identified as potentially carcinogenic substances. Right, by the FDA. Yeah, America has not outlawed them, even though many European countries have could returns to be the story.

I like that. That constantly happens with all products. Yes.

And then we can talk about two more things. Hybridization, which is the crossbreeding of wheat. Over time, every type of plant is going to be naturally hybridized and if not naturally hybridise. There is a certain level of hybridization that is appropriate for a farmer or someone to do because we are part of Mother Nature as well. So we can work symbiotically. Exactly. But the thing is, is are we doing so much hybridization that it's a different thing than it ever was?

And our bodies can't even adapt to that because we changed it. So we're hybridising it faster than our bodies hybridize. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, because we tend to co-exist with nature. When nature gets a little more rough and tough, we get a little bit rough and tough. But this is like over decades, right? When we are hybridising, things like this, it's literally within like a year or two. Correct. And now our bodies are like, oh, this is a completely new substance that I'm not used to digesting. And now it's oh, it's a toxin.

Yeah, it's a balance thing because we used to care about balance and now it's all about marketability. So they are willing to sacrifice a lot of the underlying function and quality to get a more marketable product.

It's like what we do with dogs, right? We breed them into the state where they have hip problems and back problems and nasal problems, eyesight issues.

Yeah, and all of that. But they look really good. Oh, and to take the example of dogs further, think about who Dog's ancestors were. They were wolves. Yeah. Right. Now think about a Chihuahua.

I know our modern right. Our modern wheat is literally called dwarf wheat or ancient wheat grew tall. I'm six two. It grew almost as tall as me sometimes. Yeah. And modern wheat will hit my knee, maybe my hip if we're lucky, but usually many. And that's because we've changed it. Yeah. So we're eating the Chihuahua of wheat now and like you might otherwise feel like they're not wolves so. Oh OK.

And then, so now let's just talk a little bit about fermentation and then we'll go kind of more into history. What history really did tweet and how we can go back.

Can I add something really fast?

Like because wheat is very is hybridization the same as like GMO?

It's different today. So glad you brought that up because I actually have a lot of customers say, is this non GMO wheat? The answer is yes. It's non GMOs wheat. Yeah. So is pretty much all wheat that you're going to find interesting. GMO wheat is not currently legal in America. Give it a minute.

Yes, but but it is it's quickly. They're like we're and I wouldn't be surprised if there's a law on the market if I'm going to be honest with you. Yeah, but hybridization is very closely linked with GMO. Hybridization is going to be where we take wheat is a type of grass. So we're going to take this type of grass that grows really short and then we're going to cross-breed it with the natural normal wheat that grows really tall so it'll grow shorter and be more resistant to like falling over in the wind or something.

But then we're also going to cross-breed it with this guy who has a better shelf life. And this guy and this guy in this guy and this guy. And once you just cross-breed with everything.

Yeah, you have a Frankenstein. That's what Frankenstein was. Yes, he was someone's arm, some guy's leg. Some guys had, you know. And so it is a Frankenstein, I want to go back to the so it's more shelf stable. So they've actually bred wheat now to have more fighting acid and lecterns in it. And if anyone's listened to our anti nutrient podcast, those things are really hard for your gut to metabolize because that's Mother Nature's natural preservative.

Yeah, that's how Mother Nature preserves herself with fiber and with lecterns and fighting acid, which are anti nutrients, which are kind of like micro dosing on poison for us, but a little bit.

But typically we have really hearty Gutsy. Yeah. So we can handle it. Yeah. And in normal amounts and problem areas.

And if that's the only thing that we're doing is appropriate. Right.

Because we're emesis, you know, like little micro dosing on stress here and there. But no, we're doing it for breakfast. We're doing it for lunch. We're doing it for dinner. We're putting it in baby's milk right at you know, we're putting cereal in their milk now. Their first foods is cereal. And now they're micro dosing on this really, really hearty, hard, like, potentially toxic substance that's hard to digest.

And they're babies. Yeah, their GI tract isn't fully functional yet.

They're still figuring out their microbiome. Yeah.

You know, now we're throwing in glyphosate and they're very, very like, what's the word I'm looking for? Young like jackalope. Not exact thing about your school doesn't even connect until after you're born. Like you probably isn't developed dealer.

Well, you don't have a fully functional like your adult microbiome only comes in at around ages three and five. So we're giving them these first foods at like six months old. Yeah, right. Like they don't have all the bacteria necessary to help them digest proper foods. And now we're giving them these Francon foods that have a lot of fighting acid, a lot of lecterns. Yeah. And so we're setting them up for failure. We're starting the freaky Gutsy before their get even had a chance.

Yeah. And and that is where our problem is.

Yeah. And that comes from things like hybridization. Exactly. And to find a low level hybridised which is really hard.


So does that mean organic wheat is still hybridized.

So that's going to organic is a catch 22. You guys have probably noticed it's a great thing. Don't get me wrong. Yeah, but just because it says organic doesn't mean let's run to the bank with it. So I could explain, like take us down this rabbit hole because I want people to understand this, because when people like I use my organic weed and I for my Cerrado starter and I'm like, but you're still having issues.


So explain this to us so that we can understand it. So just because it's organic, that doesn't mean it can't be heavily hybridised. Heavily cross-bred. Yeah, organic is usually to my understanding, I do not know everything, but to my understanding in this being my business, yes, it is going to be focusing more on things like pesticides, glyphosate. They're not going to be touching those.

So that's wonderful that they're doing organic for. Yes, this things like Bromates, they won't be dealing with that. But those hybridize things that are actually like grown into the plant itself, that can still be there. Right. So it's still hard to digest. Yeah, it will still tear up your gut. Yeah. It'll still cause leaky gut, even though it's organic. Yeah. Because now you don't have the glyphosate but you still have the high amount of of fighting acid which shelf stable but not digestible.


OK, OK. And then, so now let's go a little bit into what fermentation is because we've talked about wheat quality, so fermentation all throughout time we have records dating all the way back to the Egyptians. And I'm betting it happened before then because the Egyptians are kind of our some of our earliest, like, intelligent records. Yeah. So we know that pretty much all throughout time, instead of using lab produce yeast, they used fermentation to rise their bread.

So lab produced yeast. Is that most of these that we're eating right now? If you say if something has yeast in it, if you went to the store and bought a yeast packet or anything like that, it is lab produced yeast, OK, natural yeast or fermentation. The way that that works is you get a carbohydrate and a liquid. For us, it's flour and water. You mix those two together. There are actually probiotics in the air all around us.

We breathe them in every day and our body actually naturally has them inside of us. So this carbohydrate and water combination, those probiotics in the air actually attach the carbohydrates and start feeding off of them. Once they gain a relationship with it, it becomes basically a base for fermentation. Well, and there once it gains a relationship to where those probiotics have really, like, grown a lot and it's just like really rich and full of probiotics.

So with and that's what a sort of starter is. Is it flour, water? And then all the probiotics that attached to it from there. Zarzis, about six years old. So it has a really hearty relationship with those Cerrado starter. It is. It's like you created a mother sour dough six years. Yeah. And it just keeps going. Yes. And you we like the age sixteen personally for us because some people say, oh, well, mine's 150 years, which more.

To them, that's wonderful, it probably has a great relationship with probiotics, we like the 16 year old starter because it tends to give you a robust flavor, but also a milky undertone. Oh, so it is. It's strong. It's 60 years old. You know, it knows what it's doing with its life.

And they say that it is so.

But it also has some like Ben Debility, some like milk ephedra that's underneath it, which we really like.

So I'm like, OK, you got to explain bread to me like I'm five because I've never heard 16 year old sourdough starter.

Like there's ages to Salvado.

There is. I've never heard anyone say my sourdough is like ten years old or 30 years old. It's like I've never heard that.

So what you do is you mix your carbs so your flour and your water and then those probiotics kind of attached to it. And then everyone here knows what rotting is. Not everyone knows what fermentation is. Rotting in fermentation are very closely linked. Yeah. Basically, fermentation is the sister that's taken care of and rotting is the stepsister that no one loves. So no one loves you. You're not going to get new clothes and you're going to become a menace to society.

You're going to poison everybody. But if people feed you regularly, take care of you, then you're going to help other people.

Right? So fermentation is rotting, has been taken care of and so that it can actually benefit you with its probiotics. That's so great.

I love that. Yeah, a great analogy.

OK, so starters basically are we get that flour and water, we mix it together and then we continually feed it with more flour and water so it doesn't go to rot.

Very clear.

How do you keep it 16 years old? You have like a new one every year.

So like I was saying is sixteen years ago there was flour and water mixed together. Right. And then on a regular basis, we add more flour and water to that. So that way it doesn't eat through all the carbs and go down to start writing.

So as long as we continually feed it, then it won't eat through everything and turn to rot. And that's why you have to continually feed them. But here's the thing. You also continually use them, so you feed it and you will also pull some of that out and use it as yeast in your bread. Yeah, so that's great. As long as you're consistently baking, you're consistently feeding and it's going to be fine. I love it. So and for those of you who do win this giveaway contest, by the way, you're going to get instructions on how to take care of your starter as well as make bread.

And this is a 16 year old starter. Yeah, this is really cool.

So let's go a little bit more into why fermentation is actually important, though. Fermentation is really, really extremely important because it pre-process gluten and carbs. Now, some people say, oh, but I tried authentic, real fermented sourdough and it didn't work for me. What we do is what's called a double ferment. Most of the time when you make an authentic sourdough, it's going to mean that it's sitting out in a room temperature environment for eight to ten hours.

How? As it's fermentation time, we double that time. Eight hours becomes sixteen hours. So it goes sixteen, seventeen. Ours is about what we do because we have found that that is the amount of time and the temperature that's going to make enough fermentation. So a lot of people with autoimmune disorders can eat it if it's any time outside that window.

I cannot eat the bread and cheese. If it's if any of our recipes are not in the right temperature and time window, it hurts my stomach.

Everyone listening.

This is one of the reasons why we absolutely love, love, love the spread because we know that Nathan is not going to sell something that he himself cannot handle.

We test everything on my wife who actually has a gluten intolerance and think it causes her headaches and stomach aches. Yes. And then myself, who has an autoimmune disorder. Yes. And if it doesn't hurt her, it might hurt me. If it does hurt me, we never release it to market until it's perfected.

So you're still very sensitive to grains, correct? Very. And I think I always will be. And I'm grateful for that because I think it's important to be aware, because now you are like the thermostat.

You're in your and your company. You're like, oh, does it pass my test? Nope. OK, we can't totally. That's amazing. And still with me being sensitive to them, I believe that they have strengthened my gut and given me the ability to have, you know, rice, legumes, all those things back.

Well, and I want to I want to touch on that really quick because, you know, yes. An elimination diet. It's a great short term like solution to healing Gutsy and to figure out what your issue even is.

Exactly. Exactly.

So we're taking out some of the most inflammatory, potentially heavy, heavier foods on your gut. Yeah. And then we're healing it up. But there is one thing that happens if we keep doing this for a long period of time, for longer than three months, we start losing our microbiome diversity because the average American eats fifteen foods and rotates food over and over. That is not a recipe for diversity. And it got bio. Yeah, right. And so that's why it's so important to reintroduce foods again and make sure that you are feeding multiple species, multiple foods and you're rotating your foods and you're eating like 50 different kinds of foods, 100 different kinds of foods, because that's what we did in the old days.

And we did a lot of fermentation time by as well. Exactly. And so. Getting good grain, not Frankenstein, grain, not glyphosate, sprayed grain, you know, fermented grain to help add to your microbiome to help like because it metabolizes the gluten proteins anyway. So it's doing some work for you.

Yeah. You know, like there is a time and a place for grain. Yeah.

And a lot of people that's the one thing when I'm like, I have to put you in food prison for a little bit.

That's the one thing that they're like, well, I ever get to eat bread again. And my answer has always been, I don't know. Right.

But now that we have found you guys a I'm less likely I am way more likely to be like, yes. And it can only be this. It can only be this way. And actually, now that you even say that, I just want to list some of the disorders that we have with people with us. And so we have helped many people with Hashimoto's. Yeah. Who that Hashimoto's is inextricably linked with.

Totally. Every doctor, doctors who don't believe in the gluten thing will tell you now you can't have gluten. So true.

And the other day we had a couple who both have Hashimoto's both of them came back and works for both of us, works for Hashimoto's people.

We have fibromyalgia myself. We have. Oh what is it called with Ultra's ulcerative colitis. Yes. Your basic sensitivities. We also have some people who have celiac. I never recommend a fermented clean wheat to a celiac. I've never said you should eat this, but some people say, you know, I want to try it. And then they come back and they say, I want to keep seeing how this works for me in the making, doing that.

And if someone wants to do that, I just recommend that they're in close relationship with their doctor, because with Celiac, the gluten actually does hurt your gut by a rebound.

So we want to make sure that you're in close proximity to a doctor with that.

But then we've helped so many other people with, oh, huge wide array of all these different autoimmune disorder is like Graves disease or and all these other ones that, you know, there are such long names that are not remembering them right now, but there's over 100 different immune.

Yeah. Autoimmune issues now. And that list keeps like bouncing up and up. And it's like people are like, why is this happening?

It's so weird. Yeah. And I'm like, look at our environment. Yeah. Like our environment is hostile to our digestive tract and our digestive tract governs our immune system totally.

So. OK, so can you tell us about your guys is where do you get it from, how did you find it for sure. Like yeah. So we actually source our wheat from southeast Idaho. It's very important that when you're trying to source clean wheat that you talk to the suppliers themselves.

And do you know your supplier really well? Yes, we do.

And we we've interviewed them multiple times. You actually interviewed them again this week because we like we tell our customers this and we want it. Even though you asked you before, we're about to do a podcast, we need to just reconfirm everything. Yes, we did. Yes. And something that's crazy about this week. When I first got it, I was like, this is whole wheat.

It is white wheat.

And it taste has that like nice approachable flavor that we love in the. And the white bread. Exactly. But it's whole wheat.

This wheat is natural hard white winter wheat that grows in a natural white, kind of like milky, approachable flavor that's actually normal. It's been a big marketing thing that we've said. Things have to be of a red or brown color in order to eat. Right. Every product that we make from our cake to our noodles to our bread, all of it is whole wheat, even our cake, like I said. And it's because you can do that.

And then, of course, we like I said, we interview our suppliers directly. It's important to ask them those hard hitting questions about glyphosate. It's about chemicals in general. Our wheat, again, has zero chemicals applied to it even during the cleaning process.

So how did this supplier get non Frankensteinian wheat?

Yeah, like, do you know, I don't that's probably like a truthful story, to be honest with you. But I do know that it has been in the family for a very long time. So if I'm going to get to a school, they got it because their family has been doing it for months.

That makes sense. And then I just want to mention a couple more things about fermentation. So we do, again, a double heavy ferment which breaks down gluten and carbs. So there pre-digested for you. It's almost like having a stomach outside of you that does the work great. Yes. Yes. So not only does it break down those gluten carbs for you, when it breaks down those carbs, it actually lowers the GI of the carbs. What that means is when someone eats sugar or when they eat normal bread, their blood sugar boom shoots up, which is very bad for you whether you have insulin resistance or not.

Which is why I take everyone off of grains because of one of the reasons like, yes, it's one of the reasons, because I'm just like I you can't.

And my clients are really hard on you. And you know what's interesting is everyone over covered, started making Saotome and I kept having clients be like, I keep gaining weight because you're eating starchy foods, you know, and they're like, but it's sour dough. And I'm like, it's still starchy. Yeah. So you're saying that this doesn't increase blood glucose and it's. So what we're doing is, again, a double heavy ferment and what it does is anything that you eat has some carb structure, is obviously going to cause some blood.

And yes, really broccoli will. Yes, yes.

But what the difference is, is versus is low versus Haiji. Lagi means that when it releases into your bloodstream, it releases slowly.

It looks like a curve, a friendly curve.

Now when it's high, it releases fast, blamed sharp spike like a knife, because that's what it does to you. And it's like whiplash.

It's hormonal whiplash. And we feel that imagine someone being really happy and then like yelling at you the next second. And that's what your hormones are doing.

Like, holy cow, something's coming here, right? Yeah.

And our bodies aren't supposed to have those fluctuations and whiplash and hormones.

And we talked a little bit about people, the type of disorders that people have that can eat this. We have people that have insulin resistance that obviously are very aware of their insulin levels. Ours is the only bread they can eat. That's the only bread. And so it's really helpful to a lot of people. And that's really cool.

Now, is that because because, again, grains are Greaney, they're starchy like, is it?

Do you know why that's happening? So when you use a normal yeast, you're again using a lab produced yeast. And the reason why we made lab produced yeast is so that it could be fast acting so that it could make bread fast because modernity equals fast, but also equals of the drawbacks.

So with that fast acting yeast, the probiotic in our yeast is called lactobacillus. You notice the word lactose because that's in your gut. Yeah. So you also lacto like lactic acid and things like that. And also, if you were to get a bottle of probiotics, Lactobacillus is going to be in there as most common products.

But anyways, what I was meaning to say is lacto often is with the word acid. So because this starter has an acidic element to it, it's able to break things down heavily. So like you said, it's digested now.

It's digested, it's already broken down that starch, whereas a normal yeast, because it's fast acting and doesn't have an acid element to it, it will not break down as deeply. Gocha. So that natural the normal the lab produced yeast has really taken away that pre digestion.

So is that true for all Cerrado breads or because yours has been like double fermented? That's a really good question.

So if you go to the grocery store today and buy some sourdough, probably none of the health benefits that I have said will apply. Here's the reason. First of all, their wheat supplies, grocery store, wheat. So there's that right. But second of all, if you go to the grocery store and buy Cerrado nine times out of ten, it is not even real. Salvado what they do at the grocery store is they will use starter. Yes, like I've explained.

But they will also mix it with lab produced yeast so that it's still fast acting. And on top of that, because the ferment doesn't get as heavy and so it doesn't give as much flavor. They add things like vinegar and other fermented things to it to give it the flavor. But they don't realize that sourdough isn't about flavor. It's about health. Right. And so a lot of people come to us and they say, oh, I don't like soda.

And then they try and they're like, oh, I like sour grapes. Yeah. And it's because they've only had grocery store Salvado. He likes the flavor of vinegar. No one like if you like vinegar chips, that's that's great. That's wonderful. But often if we add vinegar to things, it's not the most approachable flavor. So people don't like grocery stores that for taste but also for health.

And so if someone goes and makes our dough at home. Yes. Like, so that sugar spike isn't going to happen because it's. Yes.

Ferment, as long as they ferment it deeply enough and the deeper they ferment it, the less of a spike they're going to get. And obviously, I can't say there's not going to be any, you know, carbohydrate reaction. You are eating a carbohydrate, but you're eating a much more.

And we can verify what you've said, because when you brought that loaf in, we had some people come and try it and test their blood sugar. They didn't get the spikes that they usually get from. Yeah, that's really good.

So that's really where it's really cool that you guys kind of want me to go into a history element or where do we want to go from here?

Are we doing on time where it like like where do you want to come in in time so we can so we'll just do a quick overview of just kind of what the history of wheat has looked like, because, again, this is how we started.

We said back in time, back in health, let's see what it was really were like. So starting with ancient Egypt, that's again, kind of some of our first intelligent words. We know in Egypt you can actually find remnants of of Stour tostada or natural leavening on like adobe structures in Egypt, which is really cool. Yeah, there are ancient strains of wheat that we can find in Egyptian tombs, such as what is branded as Commute's is a brand.

It's not actually a grain. So we actually know how to source what's called Khorosan, which is the actual grain commute, again, as.

A brand, but we do source Khorasan, in which you'll find that on our website if you want to order some of that as well. In this, Khorasan was found in ancient tombs and then that's how they got that ancient grain and brought into modernity.

So are you saying that the grain they found was like viable? They were able to.

Yeah, they were able to get it from there. And like, I don't know what the process looked like fully, but, yeah, that's kind of where the baseline started from for this is so cool. And then also kind of going along that line of like being able to be preserved and stuff the Bible, which again, just looking at it as a historical document rather than religious. The Bible says Egypt survived a famine via a storage of wheat.

I think that that's historically accurate.

I really do. So can you tell us a little bit about what the different kinds of like what are your most favorite grains?

What should we be gravitating towards? Because I hear a lot of like, what's the one that could be murder like in corn?

Yeah, yeah. I mean, again, as a brand. Yes, I really like.

So I mean, corn is a great grain. It is also more of an Egyptian ancient grain. That grain is going to have more of a nutty flavor. It doesn't have as high of a gluten content, which might sound like a wonderful thing. And for some it is. But here's the thing. It's really hard to bake with. I mean, you can be a wonderful pancakes, cookies, things that you can make gluten free relatively easily. Yeah.

You can make things that don't have to rise, correct? Correct.

But if we're going to talk like a bread, you need some of that gluten support to make the bread. Even corn is a great product and it does produce good things. It's just limited in what types of things it can produce. And then Corazón or again, is branded as Blackhorse and the grain is another good one. It's going to behave a lot like in corn and it's going to have that nutty texture. It's going to have or not texture, but rather flavor, and it's going to have a little bit less of that gluten content.

OK, so the one that you guys have is specifically correct, are just wheat. We are just straight up wheat correal wheat.

And so ours is going to date back to pioneer times. There wasn't all that heavy hybridization in crossbreeding and crazy stuff happening in pannier time.

So let's, I guess, kind of keep going down this timeline and get to pioneer times and think totally there are there before we do, because I feel like knowing more of like the different types of grains, what other ones should people be gravitating spelt spelt as another great one. OK, and spell is actually one of the lowest on the GI table. We discussed GI earlier because it's lower on that table. It's not going to spike your blood sugar as much.

Yeah. And also it is a lot easier for people with gluten issues and things to work with.

Can they like do the ferment thing with that? They can. They can. So they can ferment that one. They can't ferment and corn. Is that correct?

You can ferment any grain that we've named here. You can anyone. OK, it's just going to depend on the gluten content as to what kind of result you're going to see from rising in breads.

And you know what? You you do classes just right, because I feel like this should be a class, because I don't know anything about baking with grains. I try to keep things alive. I can't even keep my plants alive. So I'm like, I'm not going to feed sour dough. Yeah, because it's intimidating. Like, isn't that weird? Like, I'm intimidated by grains.

Yeah. They just seem really hard to work with totally. Because part of me, like I've just from what I've learned, I'm like, well they're inflammatory anyway. So why would I even want to get to know these guys totally like they spiked blood sugar. They cause a lot of GI distress, like, why even invest time into this? So you have classes where you teach people how to do this. You teach people how to identify the the good parts of each grain.

Do you recommend everyone uses a wide variety of grains all the time?

I think wide variety is wonderful. I prefer wheat as my base just because of that's kind of what has been throughout history. Yeah, but that's because of what I've been able to do to get it back. Yeah. So not everyone that's not going to work for everyone. Sometimes, for some people it's like what's got to be my base, which was my base for a year and a half. Yeah. Quinoa, potatoes, oats, you know.

And quinoa is a seed. It is. It's not even actually. Yeah, it is not. You're right. And so really the only grain I was having for that time was oats. Yeah. Because you're right, it's not even a grain.

It just kind of me. I'm like I always say oats and quinoa. Like if you have to eat something that's carby, like make sure it's really good oats, make sure like you're not sure there's no glyphosate, which is a good thing to go organic on. Organic oats are great. Yes. But yeah.

So OK, sorry. Let's finish the history thing because I kind of like no yeast in the bowl we find.

So yeah. Spelt is another great option. Hawson We don't currently carry corn at our store, but you can always go on our shop and buy any of our grains. Do so. Now let's just talk the Bible times we talk about bread all throughout the Bible, we talk about unleavened bread, meaning there was leavened bread. The only one they had back then was sort of a starter.

They didn't have labs to make yeast. Yes, we have literally a parable of the leaven in the Bible. Christ himself is called the bread of life, which whether he is, you know, the son of God or whatever, he is a important historical figure for that period. So referring to him as the bread of life is going to mean that bread was made, that was there nutrients.

That was their base. Exactly.

So just popping over now to pioneer times, which this is the time that our grains were coming from pioneer times during this time, there is a huge likelihood. In fact, it's beyond likelihood. It's a fact that people survived heavily off of fermented foods, which was great for their gut biome, great for just having all types of things all year round and real food year round. Some families actually have of starts brought across the plains by their pioneer ancestors.

We live in the northwest. We're in the Utah area. So there's a lot of people who have pioneer ancestry right out of it. Right. And they have, you know, a 150 year old, 200 year old starters from those people. That's something about the pioneers. Again, most of the West was settled by people who like either drug handcarts or like had oxen pull things across the nation, which is crazy. So weight was really important.

You didn't want to bring all of your heavy antiques with you because you wouldn't make it. You would probably die. Yeah.

If you brought all that stuff yet. So weight was important. Adults could only bring 15 pounds of personal items with them. Wow, that's insane. And, you know, 13 to 17 somewhere in there. So fifteen's a good medium to go with. Yeah, but here's the thing. Along with their personal items, every adult was assigned 200 pounds of flour.

That's insane because they knew that what they had to eat, every pound of that flour was worth the steps. They had to drag it across the nation. They knew there's no way I'm going to get there unless I bring this with me. Right. And do you think pioneers could have walked across the nation on Wonder Bread? No.

The only reason why this works is because they, again, had really quality grains that hadn't been through the processes that we have now. Yeah, but also the fermentation that they did to make their bread actually breaks down walls so that you can get deeper nutrients into your system. So they were not surviving on Wonder Bread. They had deep nutrients that they were accessing from these grains because the fermentation unlocked those nutrients.

So cool those. That's really cool. Yeah.

And it's also suggested, again, that many of these pioneers survived on a diet largely made of bread. So Cerrado, because of its higher nutrient content, is what get them.

Know, what I'm hearing here is it's so sad how we've bastardized grains. Yeah. So sad. Like, there really is so much value to it. And what we have right now is, is something to line the pockets of massive corporations.

Oh, I love that you just said that because it makes me so angry because our our nutrition and our health is it's a marketing gimmick.

Right. It's to make people money. It's no longer about feeding the nation.

It's putting empty calories that are now destroying our guts and destroying our bodies totally. And then we just take a medication for that. So now we're feeding two massive corporations, right?

Big Pharma, big agricultural, agriculture, anything. Yeah. And it's really sad. Yes. And I completely agree with what was just said. Now, here's something to think about. Did it start that way? And I would say I don't think it started that way. And here's why. If we're going to move on the timeline down to wartimes, which is when everything started changing for the grain world war to.

Right, correct. World War Two is when a lot of technological advancements were taking place because this was a huge war.

This was a time when we really needed to, like, put government funding into things.

It was a necessity for survival. Really. A lot of technological advances happen because of wars. And so this is one of those times in World War Two, lab produced yeast actually started becoming interesting. The reason why is so that we can make fast bread for our soldiers, for other things like that. Again, technological advances because of war. Right? No way do I believe that there was an evil overseer wanting the yeast produced. They didn't know enough.

Where have we gone with what do we know now and are we not reneging on.

That's kind of what I because, like, we hit hard with research in the 70s and 80s and like, scientists were knowing better. Right. And they just weren't saying anything. But we're making money. We can't read it. Yeah. And my boss tells me I can't release this research.

Right. So I'm not going to. Yeah. So that's that's really interesting that it was a necessity. So they did cut corners. But then like years later, we were realizing, oh, this is probably pot, but that's probably where it got a little diabolical.

Now. Now here's the thing, too, because Tristin and I talk about pot Inger's cats all the time. Pottinger had cats. Will you? And we've mentioned that we talk about it in most episodes.

So so this guy Pottinger, he he had cats and he was experimenting on their diet.

So he took healthy cats and he replaced their natural foods with synthetic, you know, fake food from first generation.

They get sick. Yeah, second generation even sicker. And it just goes on and on and on. So then they're like, OK, well, we're going to reverse this now.

So they put the cats back on natural food diet, took them for generations to get back from a three generation, will not even from the first generation, from one generation about eating.

It took four generations of good eating to get back to the health levels, which I have my surprise voice on, but I'm not surprised.

Yeah, because now I'm thinking back to World War Two.

Those were our grandparents, correct? Right. And so they probably started off with real food. Correct. Like the breaking down in their GI tract started maybe in their 20s and their 30s.

They probably didn't feel they had established God. Right. And then and then we have so those are our grandparents. And then we have our parents who are now in this like this this change in, you know, the the foods and technology. And so so Frankenfood started creeping more and more and more into their lives and then towards their 50s and their 60s. They start to get health issues.

Then there's our our generation who we are getting sick in like late teens, 20s and 30s and 40s. They're now 13, 14 years old, who just my beginning teen years. Yeah, right.

But like everything like hit rock bottom in, like, your 20s and 30s. And that's what's happening with our generation, right? Everyone like people most people that come to our clinic are like 30s. Yeah. And they're like, I've been on this medical Merry-Go-Round for like five to ten years already. And now what I'm seeing are five, six, seven year old kids that all have got issues, autoimmune issues. And I say this all the time, allergies since the 90s, mid 90s has tripled.

Yeah. And the children, I believe that, like, our kids are sick. Yeah. And so we were living pot Inger's cats. Yeah.

And Grain's was one of the things that like triggered that, that started and I did that.

And greens like in the standard American diet, that's all we eat. We eat pasta, we eat bread, we eat cereal, we eat. What else do we eat. Donuts, donuts, bagels, burgers with the bun.

You know, like everything comes from Frankenstein to green or any packaged good is going to have green. Exactly. Exactly.

So we are in that third generation of potters, cats, but with no reversal. Yeah. And we're trying to reverse it now ourselves.

And just to kind of go a little bit more into like our parents era. So like my parents got married in 1977. I'm only thirty, but I'm the youngest child of eight, so that's a lot of kids.

But so they're older to be my parents.

But so they were married in 1977 during the wartimes, the Green Revolution started happening. This meant that we started crossbreeding, our wheat a ton. We started taking that wolf and turning it into a Chihuahua. Yeah, hard core. In fact, a man named Norman Borlaug actually won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1970. So my parents generation 1970, because of his hybridization efforts, he's credited with saving a billion lives across the world because of hybridization of wheat specifically.

That shows if we're going to award the Nobel Peace Prize to someone for hybridising wheat, not only has it been heavily hybridised, but it's been a focus. Yeah. Yeah.

And do I believe that Norman Borlaug was that evil man? No, he saved billions of lives. Yeah. Do I believe that we know information that we should probably go back on now? Yes. And even going a little bit more into our parents generation. 1974 was when glyphosate were really invented. In 1980 was when wheat application of glyphosate started happening in Scotland, which was the first place to do that. And then they started doing that in the Americas and things like that.

And then on top of that, we see a resurgence of this hybridization green revolution in the late 80s and early 90s. So we see Nathan heisting right here on Earth time Tremblers Bakary, who was born in 1990. That is the cusp of when everything had finally hit. Yeah, everyone in my generation is experiencing this.

Yep, yep.

Everyone born between, you know, from the 90s onward or the eighties, you know, with. Yep. If you or your best friend doesn't have it like, oh my gosh, you're so lucky.

Amazing. Like you don't like energy issues and you don't have to take a nap at two o'clock in the afternoon. That's amazing. Right. It really is amazing when you come across a healthy person now. Yeah, actually I think was it correct me if I'm wrong, because you'll probably know this, but it was decided that in 1996, that's when they started using glyphosate. It's the desiccant and that is when childhood allergies started to like, just go through the roof.

Yeah, I don't know that one for positive, but I believe you because if we're just going to look at numbers, you know that things. Right, exactly.

And you know, they were using glyphosate just generally, but then use it as a desiccant. So you said ten days before harvest, right. Of seven to ten days before to dry it out. So they stopped doing natural drying out and they started desiccating it with with glyphosate. And that started in 96. And now we're all just like leaky get through the roof and. You will find like if you were to look this up on Snopes dotcom, for example, like glyphosate.

Yeah. They would say, oh yeah, glyphosate is not really an issue, but you will also find in there that desiccant are used that are not glyphosate, but nonetheless, they're used to kill everything. Right. It doesn't have to be labeled glyphosate to be a bad thing if it's going to kill all the organic material. It's probably not a great thing to ingest that.

Exactly. Exactly. It's like, oh, this is rat poison. It only kills rats. Yeah, it's safe for you. Yeah. Oh, no, it's not so OK.

Well, I feel like why don't you tell people how they can find you and we have a discount code we're going to give away, tell people about your company and like where are your channels, how can they get your bread, how can they get your sourdough, how can they buy your flour because and tell them the menu.

Like, what do you offer? Oh yeah. I love this. So we we actually are just signing for a storefront in downtown Provo, which we're excited about. The grand opening of that storefront is coming in November.

But currently anyone can order any product that they want online as well as come to farmer's markets to get it. We are at the sunset farmer's markets so you can look those up on Google there in Orem, Utah, as well as Springville, Utah. And we also occasionally do other farmer's markets around the valley, but Sunset and Sunset Farmer's Market. So it's run through the end of October and then, you know, three days later is our grand opening.

So again, Time Traveler's Bakery dotcom is where you find any of our products to order it. You can also have it ships to you.

Right now, we currently offer our classic sour dough, which tastes amazing and tastes like white bread, even though it's whole wheat, even though everything that we make is whole wheat.

We also have our honey wheat, which is going to taste a tiny bit like a Hawaiian sweet roll. Don't worry, no sugar. We never add sugar to anything unless it's labeled as a dessert because that's the only place that sugar belongs. Again, you know, you're eating it should be eating it. Yes. And so we have, again, that honey wheat loaf, which is only sweetened with honey. You mentioned cakes.

Do you guys make cakes? We do like and you have to special order. Yeah.

Those cakes we don't currently have for ordering yet. That's going to be something once we have our storefront open. Yes. We're going to you know, we'll do that probably within the month of having it open. Another recipe that we'll be releasing when our store front opens around that time is our sourdough noodles.

They are too, I would imagine, sourdough bread, but like the taste in a noodle form, it gives it this, like, savory twist. It's good.

And then we also do a Cerrado pie crust, which actually at this point it's not sour. It is a sweet crust. And we might release one that is actually sour later for like apple pie or something like that. Cool ice.

And so and also you guys, if you order, how do they order and pick up from our store?

Because we are actually going to be having you guys, if you want, you can pick order online and pick up from Proval Health.

Korac, if you're local. Yeah. So which is right by sprouts. Go get your groceries, pick up your bread on the way home.

Know exactly you guys. It's a no brainer. Also, if you guys go online and I'm going to have Nathan explain this all to you, we have a discount for you guys. So it's a ten percent discount if you use the code Gutsy. Correct, G.U. T. S y.

Yeah. And so you can order your bread online, you can order your we'd have it shipped to you or to your Cerrado have it or your your starter how to ship to you with that code and ten percent off.

Or if you're local and you're like me and you just don't have time to sing to our starter and make your own bread and you just want it made by the hands of Nathan and you just want to pick it up and eat it, then you can order that online as well with that Gutsy discount code and pick it up from probably.

Correct. So how does that process work?

So you guys will hop online, you'll click shop now? Pretty, pretty self-explanatory.

Select any product that you want, put it in your cart when you're checking out. It's going to say it's going to say, do you want the ship to you or do you want to pick it up?

You'll say, hey, I want to pick this up.

And of course, you're going to select that. You want to pick it up at Proval House because they're the best and the routes and other restaurants.

And then also on top that when you're checking out, it's going to ask for if there's any codes that you want to apply, you're going to just type in Gutsy, G.U., TDY, and that'll give you that ten percent off and make sure and again, you'll be selecting that. You can pick it up right at their location and it'll be great.

That's so great. I can't wait. And and you guys, we wouldn't we have tons of companies that come into our stores that we vet, that we we turn away.

And so to get buried, you know, like razors to get bread picked up from my clinic is seeing a lot of things like I would never allow this if I didn't approve of it.

So this actually has this unique stamp of approval. Oh, my gosh. Otherwise, you wouldn't be on the podcast. Although, like, I am not in the business of selling bread, but people love bread, they love it, they love their wheat.

And I want people who are on a healing journey to not feel like they are in food prison all the time. They you have a better choice and you're you're healing.

Journey doesn't have to be the law of Moses. It does. It's not a law that says this. Yes. This. No. Yeah. You can listen to your body. Yeah. You can progress. Exactly. Of course all learning starts with rule-based learning, but don't think that you have to be stuck there forever. It's so important to not be stuck with rules forever and eventually have those rules be something that your body can answer to.

I think the key is you just have to be honest with yourself. Why don't you do something and rationalize it?

Because your body knows your life totally. Exactly.

And I just kind of wanted to bounce off that this bread is not going to work for everyone. I do not want to pretend that it will work for everyone. Right. But here's the thing. If it works for you, it'll change your life. Changed my life. Like my hair is falling out. I couldn't run for a while. I thought I'd be in a wheelchair. Like it changed my life and.

I've met so many people that it's changed theirs and again, I'm not going to say it will or won't work for you, but give it a try. Exactly. You can pick up again the week the read any of that at their place. But exactly. I'd rather be healthier you.

I feel a little bad because our kids, they they don't eat a lot of bread. So when we do and the bad that we we've bought until you is the Abigail's of it. Yeah. Right.

And I'm like once a month that's what they get and it's gone in like 24 hours and I'm like, you know, I'm fine buying more bread now because they love it and the kids need carbs because they're running around the time. And the one thing I want to leave off on is the more there's studies that show that omnivores have more got biodiversity than vegans and vegetarians. Why? Because of the food variety. Right. And so we need to like I know I said this earlier and I'm going to say it again.

Research shows the more like variety in foods you have in grains. As part of that, the more gut biodiversity you're going to have, the healthier your immune system, the happier you're going to be. So if this is if bread is just something you're in love with and you need a clean source and non Frankenstein bread, one that's organic, I know this isn't an organic certification, but it is.

It meets both standard organic levels and it's actually beyond Oregonian's organic. We don't run into a certification process because we want you to actually pay a reasonable price.

Exactly. But we do certified watering holes. Exactly. So if you guys if if you are at the point where you're like, you know what, my gut is healing. I need to reintroduce grains again. I miss baking with flour, then go to a Time Traveler's Bakery dotcom and start ordering and falling in love with grains again, uploading a series of classes here within, you know, the next while.

And we'd love to teach you this is something that's important for people to know. Thank you so much.

This has been so great. Before we go, we need to give people the link to the oh, you're they give away Gutsy Gutsy h forward slash bread Gutsy Gutsy forward slash bread is just going to go there.

You're going to enter in your details, go there, put in your name and your email address and we will concentrate on the drive winners personally and we'll say, you guys get your sour dough starter because we love you. Yeah. Thank you for checking in Nathan. Thank you so much.

This is awesome. I'm so glad that I could come. I hope it blesses everybody. I have learned so much. So anything you want to say to us know this honestly.

You've got to try to spread the bread. You live in Alaska. Get the starter. Yeah. And make some at home. You will not regret it.

And we are currently opening up nationwide shipping. So if that ever opens for your area, give it a try.

Works for you. You guys. I can't believe we did a whole podcast episode on bread. I can't believe it. It's the devil, isn't it? Yes. I never thought this day would come, but I hope there's a lot of happy people out there that are like, you know what, I'm going to try this again. I've healed enough. I'm going to reintroduce it. I'm going to make my life a little bit happy because food is meant to be enjoyed.

Eating healthy is fun. It's enjoyable. It's tasty. Right. And bread is one of those nostalgic ingredients that we've all grown up on. Right. And so hopefully this brings you a little bit of joy.

And we are very excited to hear from all of you about how it goes.

Please tell us, like, give us feedback and tell us how much you love it. All right. And so next time, talk to you later.

Thanks, guys.

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